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Mindful of the BA(E)C changes and the possibility of adding tier points / increasing eligible spend, I added a hotel to a flight recently. The stage in the booking process at which I added the hotel was subsequent to choosing the flights. Despite the trip not being until April I was expected to pay the entire amount there and then (which I did). The transaction on my credit card showed as BA Holidays.
A few questions:
1. Does this count as a BA Holiday?
2. Does anyone know why I had to pay the full amount rather than the usual x% now and the rest later?
3. Most crucially, does the full amount (including all the tax nasties) count as eligible spend?As MMB still can’t show how many tier points will be earned the only way to answer the question is to appeal to the vast wisdom gathered here on HfP.
1. Should do.
2. Don’t know, possibly related to the relatively short timescale (even though full payment is not normally due until two months before departure).
3. Yes if it’s a holiday, no if it isn’t 🙂It should be obvious in MMB, certainly in the App, whether it’s a BAH package or not. A holiday starts with ‘Your booking summary’ and refers to the ATOL certificate, then gives the BAH telephone number of 0344 493 0787, before getting to Select seat, Add extra baggage etc options.
A flight only booking kicks straight off with the latter options.
If you booked through BA.com rather than BAH, adding a hotel to a flight booking, even if by virtue of adding a hotel at the same time you may have created a package holiday or possibly just a ‘linked travel arrangement’ that doesn’t make it a BAH for TP purposes which is why you didn’t get a deposit option which you should have done for an April departure.
I think it counts as a BAH, but not for the double TP offer (though that ends in March, so not relevant here).
I’m guessing because you’d already paid for the flights (that’s how I’m reading your post), the system didn’t see it as eligible for deposit-only. Calling BAH’s might have been a way around this.
As above, you’ll have email indicators that it’s a BAH. When you go into the booking you should see a voucher for your hotel, as well as the flight details.
Did you get an ATOL certificate? If booked as a BA Holiday that should be visible within MMB along with the hotel voucher.
I think the deposit issue is determined by the way you book the holiday. If you select flight + hotel from the start then you will be offered the option to pay a deposit. If you start with just booking flights and then add hotel before payment it becomes a linked arrangement and you will have to pay in full. It’s still a holiday booking though.
Thanks, all, helpful insights. The hotel and flights were selected and paid for as part of the same single booking and payment process.
@NorthernLass you made a good point about hunting for clues in the booking. When I compare with a flight-only booking, MMB starts with ‘We are flying you to…’ whereas a BAH booking starts with ‘Your booking’ and then lists the flights followed by the hotel / car hire, as described by @AndrewT. So, on the face of it, it looks like it’s probably a holiday. Possibly. At the very least, at this stage, BA appears to be acting like it’s a holiday. Only time will tell whether BAC also thinks it’s a holiday and awards the full complement of TPs. I hope they do, it’s an expensive hotel, only me travelling and cost a fair chunk of money.Thanks again for your help, much appreciated.
@AJA – the presence of an ATOL certificate or otherwise is not the determinant of what does or does not constitute a ‘real’ BAH under the current double TP offer and I don’t believe it will be in the new TP world either. It’s much more precise than that.
Sure, regarding double TPs I have no expectation that this would apply as the trip was booked post-31 Dec (after The Fall). If I can get standard TPs for the full amount spent then I’ll be happy; the tax element was not trivial.
@JDB I wasn’t commenting on the double tier point issue nor was I suggesting an ATOL certificate is the ‘real’ nor indeed the only criterion but it is a big clue as I’ve never had one for a flight only booking.
@AJA and AJDB I just checked a couple of flight-only bookings and there is certainly no ATOL number listed anywhere I can find under MMB. An actual BAH (as well as my possible BAH booking) both have ATOL numbers shown. As far as I know, ATOL protection does not cover flight-only bookings (but to be fair there’s much that I don’t know!).
@AJA and AJDB I just checked a couple of flight-only bookings and there is certainly no ATOL number listed anywhere I can find under MMB. An actual BAH (as well as my possible BAH booking) both have ATOL numbers shown. As far as I know, ATOL protection does not cover flight-only bookings (but to be fair there’s much that I don’t know!).
* @JDB, not AJDB
@JDB I wasn’t commenting on the double tier point issue nor was I suggesting an ATOL certificate is the ‘real’ nor indeed the only criterion but it is a big clue as I’ve never had one for a flight only booking.
No, you won’t get one for flight only (unless maybe it’s a charter flight), but if say you booked a BA flight, paid for it and the next day (I think it has to be within 24 hours) booked a car or hotel, you have a package holiday and will get an ATOL certificate but I don’t believe that although it’s a package and although it’s sold by BA, that is what we all understand by a BAH, it wouldn’t earn double TP and I don’t believe it would earn any TP in the new system. Thus, for practical purposes, it’s not a BAH even if it shares many characteristics.
The Package Travel and Linked Arrangements Regulations 2018 added a number of variants of what could or must constitute a package or LTA to adapt to changing booking patterns and I’m sure BA complies with those regulations, but the definition for earning TPs today or from 1 April is narrower than the legal definition. One thing with BA is that you wouldn’t know the cost of the individual package elements (except by extrapolation) for what they define as a real BAH.
@JDB I wasn’t commenting on the double tier point issue nor was I suggesting an ATOL certificate is the ‘real’ nor indeed the only criterion but it is a big clue as I’ve never had one for a flight only booking.
No, you won’t get one for flight only (unless maybe it’s a charter flight), but if say you booked a BA flight, paid for it and the next day (I think it has to be within 24 hours) booked a car or hotel, you have a package holiday and will get an ATOL certificate but I don’t believe that although it’s a package and although it’s sold by BA, that is what we all understand by a BAH, it wouldn’t earn double TP and I don’t believe it would earn any TP in the new system. Thus, for practical purposes, it’s not a BAH even if it shares many characteristics.
The Package Travel and Linked Arrangements Regulations 2018 added a number of variants of what could or must constitute a package or LTA to adapt to changing booking patterns and I’m sure BA complies with those regulations, but the definition for earning TPs today or from 1 April is narrower than the legal definition. One thing with BA is that you wouldn’t know the cost of the individual package elements (except by extrapolation) for what they define as a real BAH.
Hmmm… this then comes back to my original question: what constitutes a BAH? If I have two bookings which, on paper, are indistinguishable from each other AND the payment was taken by BA Holidays, what exactly is it that determines whether BA treats this as a BAH from the point of view of awarding TPs across the entire spend?
@JDB I think OP added the hotel before getting to the payment stage so that should qualify as a BA Holidays booking. They have confirmed they have an ATOL certificate too.
The trip was booked after 30 Dec and is for travel after 31 March so isn’t eligible for double tier points anyway.
As to the idea of adding a hotel the following day turning it into a linked arrangement and earning TP on the hotel spend I think that the answer is we don’t know if it will or not. I think it may just earn TP as the new scheme says that seat reservation and ancilliary spend will count towards TPs. I suggest assuming it won’t in that scenario described but we may just be surprised. There’s no info on whether just buying a stand aline hotel through BA will earn TP but I suspect that won’t work.
From what I’ve read, hotel and car hire bookings will earn TPs under the new system, but who knows what % of that they will decide is qualifying?
@AJA – I don’t want to labour the point, but even when you add a hotel or car hire after you have selected flights and the two are individually priced even if paid for together, while that should constitute a package in law, my belief is that it doesn’t constitute a ‘real’ BAH today in BA language and it’s difficult to see how it would qualify for the 1TP/£1 in the new system. Each passenger (instead of just the booker) would instead earn TP for their respective flights as the price/breakdown has been disclosed.
The title of the thread was very apt because there are very clearly full BAH and quasi BAH so it’s important to book carefully if it matters to the booker that it should be the real deal.
@JDB this is exactly my point. Looks like a duck, walks like a duck, etc… but is it? Were it not for the fact that I was expected to pay the full amount in advance then I wouldn’t even question whether this is a BAH or not. The flight and hotel were selected as part of the same transaction and paid for under one locator code with the flights and hotel showing together under MMB and with vouchers for the hotel and flights. There is also an ATOL number and the card transaction shows as BA Holidays. So I cannot believe that any sane soul would ever consider this to be anything other than a BA Holiday. Until, enter stage left, BA, which may have an entirely different (and so far undisclosed) definition of exactly what a holiday looks like for the purposes of earning TPs on the entire spend, gross of taxes.
@Wanderlost I think you should get TP on the entire spend including the hotel. @JDB seems to think you won’t. Whatever you decide, if you don’t cancel, I would be grateful if you report back if you earn TP per the amount you’ve spent including the hotel rather than just for the flights.
Well I’ve just done a dummy flight only booking Apr 1-9, then added a hotel from the later screen, and got asked for a deposit.
So it doesn’t help, but I still can’t explain why the OP had to pay the full amount. I continue with the view that if the flight and hotel are booked at the same time via a single payment taken by BA Holidays then it should be a holiday for TP purposes under the new regime.
As historic performance is not necessarily an indication of future performance, this may or may not help, but I too have booked 4 holidays where I had no option for the deposit payment route, all just defaulted to full payment. All 4 were indeed holidays, the confirmation email mentioned BAHols, and all received, eventually, double TPs. I just put it down to BAs special IT systems….
@AndrewT, well now I feel singled out for special financial discrimination!
Inspired by you, I also made another booking for the sam,e route and dates, and this time I was also offered to pay only a deposit. #victimised
@AJA absolutely, I’ll report back back the trip isn’t until April. If I feel overwhelmed by a naive wave of optimism that BA might know the answer (stop giggling at the back) then I might even phone BAEC and check with them directly.@Wanderlost – with the extra detail given, it does look positive and indeed the occasional poster has reported getting double TP (although I know it’s not what you are booking, it’s a test) even adding a hotel a bit later.
As there is a level of uncertainty, I would definitely only book a BAH via the more ‘traditional’ route to avoid potential disappointment as the position I have stated is technically correct but I nevertheless hope you get your reward!
@JDB, thank you. I suppose until BA knows itself what the rules are (and clearly it’s a bit vague on this point or MMB would say more than just ‘Plus your eligible tier points’) then the best the rest of us can do is guess. As your guesses are likely more informed than mine then I’m happy to have the combined HfP brainpower to call on to fill in the blanks.
@Wanderlost. I recently booked (post 30 December) what I thought was a BAH (flights and car) for more than 5 days. It was a nightmare trying to book as there were IT issues. I wasn’t given the option to just pay a deposit even though it was more than 7 weeks before departure and was over £300. Throughout the process there was the usual red writing stating “EC members earn double tier points ……”. Throughout the process I always take screenshots, so could prove if need be.
If I go to MMB, below flight and car hire details and where it says print voucher, the next 2 lines state view or print Ts&Cs and view or print ATOL certificate. If you select Ts&Cs, for me the Ts&Cs quite clearly state it’s a BAH. Suggest you have a look here. There are also numbers to call, which are the same as the ones in the recent WhatsApp message I received reminding me the balance was due in 2 days for another BAH.
So suggest you go back to your booking and see if you have similar info.
@LD27 I like your thinking. I did exactly that and the T&Cs open with:
<- Legal
British Airways Holidays Amendments or Cancellationsetc etc
So, according to me, this is unequivocally an actual real-life bona fide BA Holiday. Thank you.
That said, I still don’t trust the slippery little sods to deliver on the full tally of TPs. This whole BA Club fiasco makes me a little unsure that BA won’t find myriad creative ways to avoid paying TPs. Hopefully the trust will grow back over time. HfP will doubtless continue to be a great resource for comparing notes.
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