-
@Mouse there was a proposal by the Commission in about 2012 to amend EC261 and one of the suggestions was to remove the requirement for passengers actually to use the first coupon (and logically therefore also the last). Other ideas were to stretch the delay compensation intra Europe from three hours to five and reduce the ‘right to care’. It all got kiboshed. There were supposed to be some new proposals earlier this year but no sign yet; if they ever come to anything, they are likely to be less passenger friendly than at present.
The idea of regulating pan-European fares would, I think, be outside the legal competence of the EU and again would be highly unlikely ultimately to benefit the passenger. The Italian government is currently trying it on some domestic routes which may not end well.
@JDB Fare regulation is one option but how about an alternative where airlines are required to swap passengers with crossing routes like the example I gave. So e.g., 72 hours from departure BA and KLM are required to compare passenger lists for flights arriving in New York within a 4 hour window and if say BA has 8 passengers doing AMS-LON-NYC and KLM has 6 doing LON-AMS-NYC then they swap 6 passengers to direct flights. If it was operated as a pool between all the hub and spoke airlines rather than bilaterally then I believe the number of short haul flights reduced would be quite material. Passengers would have the right to claim rewards on either airline and use status according to whichever airline they have higher status on.
The bigger issue is why doesn’t the EU regulate against this sort of pricing in the first place. It’s crazy that so many short intra-Europe flights are taken entirely because of these pricing structures. It’s incredibly inefficient economically and environmentally damaging that at this very moment someone is flying from London to Amsterdam to get on a flight to New York and someone else is flying from Amsterdam to London to get on a flight to New York. Madness! I fully understand why it is so, but it’s a complete waste of the passengers’ time, the airlines’ money and the environment and I’m sure some smart regulation could cut it out!
The number of people doing these sorts of trips is – despite the appearances of threads like this one – incredibly small in comparison to the total number of people flying and the total number of flights and the numbers aren’t driving any increase in the number of flights.
It would be nigh on impossible to regulate against them. But if they tried and somehow managed it then in pretty short order the ECJ would likely rule against it on the grounds it interferes with the freedom of movement of individuals and on competition grounds restricting the markets ability to set prices.
Heck the 3 EU institutions can’t agree on how reform EU261/2004 despite everyone agreeing it needs reform. And some governments would simply veto it because of economic harm it would do to their citizens.
And if a very small number of people want to spend their time flying from A to B to then fly back to A to go to C then why should they be stopped? It’s their time to spend how they wish. If you don’t want to take advantage of such pricing because it’s a waste of your time then that’s absolutely your decision to make. But it’s my decision now I spend my time as well.
And what about the people who actually live in B who can only get to C by flying via A? You’d be increasing prices for them as well.
@JDB Fare regulation is one option but how about an alternative where airlines are required to swap passengers with crossing routes like the example I gave. So e.g., 72 hours from departure BA and KLM are required to compare passenger lists for flights arriving in New York within a 4 hour window and if say BA has 8 passengers doing AMS-LON-NYC and KLM has 6 doing LON-AMS-NYC then they swap 6 passengers to direct flights. If it was operated as a pool between all the hub and spoke airlines rather than bilaterally then I believe the number of short haul flights reduced would be quite material. Passengers would have the right to claim rewards on either airline and use status according to whichever airline they have higher status on.
How are you going to enforce it? It would be big brother telling you how to spend your time. The data protection issues would have the courts tied up in knots for starters.
And then there is the freedom of movement issue.
Are the police going to arrest you at check in if you refuse to take the direct flight?
Are they going to frog march someone to the C gates at T5 from the KLM gates in T4 to put them on a BA flight when they have bought and paid for a KLM flight from AMS?
What about those people who may have activities in AMS they want to do before their flights? Or they are flying to AMS to travel with someone who needs their assistance on a long TATL?
Who is going to be the judge of whether you’re ok to fly to AMS but to say I’m not?
Some bored check in agent?
But above all it’s still not going to reduce the number of short haul flights.
And if a very small number of people want to spend their time flying from A to B to then fly back to A to go to C then why should they be stopped? It’s their time to spend how they wish. If you don’t want to take advantage of such pricing because it’s a waste of your time then that’s absolutely your decision to make. But it’s my decision now I spend my time as well.
And what about the people who actually live in B who can only get to C by flying via A? You’d be increasing prices for them as well.
The point is not to stop A-B-A-C journeys which I agree is vanishingly small but to stop A-B-C in cases where A-C is an option.
Are the police going to arrest you at check in if you refuse to take the direct flight?
Are they going to frog march someone to the C gates at T5 from the KLM gates in T4 to put them on a BA flight when they have bought and paid for a KLM flight from AMS?
What about those people who may have activities in AMS they want to do before their flights? Or they are flying to AMS to travel with someone who needs their assistance on a long TATL?
Who is going to be the judge of whether you’re ok to fly to AMS but to say I’m not?
Some bored check in agent?
But above all it’s still not going to reduce the number of short haul flights.
True – so the swap can be optional – I bet 90% of people on indirect flights if offered a direct flight at the same time at no extra cost would snap it up.
airlines are required to swap passengers with crossing routes like the example I gave. So e.g., 72 hours from departure BA and KLM are required to compare passenger lists for flights arriving in New York within a 4 hour window and if say BA has 8 passengers doing AMS-LON-NYC and KLM has 6 doing LON-AMS-NYC then they swap 6 passengers to direct flights.
Book a qsuite flight LHR to SIN via DOH? ‘No!’ says the overreaching seat allocating ai, ‘club world for you’ as it swaps you to the direct BA plane 😀
Book a qsuite flight LHR to SIN via DOH? ‘No!’ says the overreaching seat allocating ai, ‘club world for you’ as it swaps you to the direct BA plane 😀
Indeed, swaps should be optional
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Popular articles this week:
