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I think we all agree don’t blame the customer for BA’s lack of coherent and competent communication channels
That’s right, but as this is the reality for most organisations these days, not just airlines, the customer needs to be realistic about that and smarter…
err nope. The customer needs excellent legislation to stop organisations behaving so badly.
@Garethgerry – there’s no contradiction. Some people can afford to be out of funds, but a great many can’t and some of those that can afford to wait, myself included, would rather minimise the sum in dispute for a multiplicity of obvious reasons.
You are a very experienced traveller and have told us you had a senior job, so I am sure you are very capable of navigating the vagaries of different airline customer service systems. Unfortunately, it’s totally understandable why call centres have been emasculated and that won’t change but when I refer to self help, I’m talking about accepting that things are the way they are and acting accordingly. There are ways and means of asking call centre staff to get things done and one regularly sees people here asking for the wrong thing or reporting that they insisted or demanded BA do x, or I cited the law to them etc. which usually will get you nowhere. It’s the same when people post a problem that’s so muddled no BA agent is going to understand it either. When writing to an airline, a real letter addressed to the right person is often better than an email and how it’s written and presented makes a huge difference. Etc. etc.
Your condescending pontification clearly has no bounds.
The last few days have highlighted this better than ever before, accentuated by two commentators referring specifically to your ‘bombastic’ behaviour and your chosen purpose on this forum being ‘to tell people they are wrong’, with an opinion, more often than not, delivered as ‘fact’, when it is nothing of the sort.
You even had the audacity to claim that you ‘like to deal in facts’ the other day. Just give your opinion like everybody else.
You often offer a helpful and logical point of view, and I have seen many informative and useful posts from you over the years, but jeez, drop the almighty tone and remove yourself from your own……………………
@Points Hound – thanks for the helpful input/feedback. Obviously you aren’t interested in helping people resolve issues and are happy to allow myths like ‘never take a refund’ to perpetuate rather than be corrected and explained.
@Richie – the current legislation could be better (but realistically won’t change in the foreseeable future) but still offers extraordinarily high levels of protection and routes of appeal not to be found elsewhere. Ultimately they work just fine.In both instances, using the APR to ones advantage and taking the time to understand them rather than complaining about them (or other people) seems the more constructive approach.
Obviously you aren’t interested in helping people resolve issues and are happy to allow myths like ‘never take a refund’ to perpetuate rather than be corrected and explained.
You’re welcome @JDB.
The relevance of my post has nothing to do with myths, nor refunds however, but please feel free to point out where I indeed stated or suggested that I’m not interested in people being helped, or that I support said myths, given you deal in facts.
We are witnessing a failure to see the woods for the trees here.
DNFTT
I still stick to point that taking a refund is a bad option if you expect any other expenses except air fare. Once you have cancellled and asked for refund, any expenses afterwards will not be responsibly of airline. Never take refund until you are in situation you have nothing more to claim
If you are away from home the airline has a duty of care.
Example , flight cancelled airline offers return flight in 4 days, won’t reroute you on one on 2 days and won’t budge. You don’t cancel straight away, you book return flight, get home. Airline has responsibility for all you’re reasonable expenses. You may then cancel and bill them for all he duty of care expenses and difference in fares. If you cancelled straight away, duty of care will end whilst you are away.
Of course if there are no duty of care expenses, eg they cancel when you are at home , it doesn’t matter.
@Garethgerry – for the reasons set out in response to you making the same point in Saturday’s chat, this isn’t right. In a great many instances an airline will remain liable for both your rerouting costs and Article 9 expenses even after you have taken a refund. It is case/fact specific.
@JDB , if you don’t cancel, there is absolutely no doubt as to airline responsibility, no if no but, no case by case circumstances.
I’d always go with the no doubt the airline is responsible route
@JDB , if you don’t cancel, there is absolutely no doubt as to airline responsibility, no if no but, no case by case circumstances.
I’d always go with the no doubt the airline is responsible route
If you don’t cancel but opt to self reroute, you are in no better position to claim rerouting and/or Right to Care expenses than if you had taken the refund but you are more out of pocket.
Self rerouting should always and only be done , carefully and cautiously with good reason. That is if the routes offered by the airline do not obviously and clearly meet the needs of the passenger, and the self rerouting is significantly and substantially closer to the orginal schedule. Then there will be no doubt about reimbursement. You will always be in a firm position if you stick to this rule. Canceling just gives another excuse for airline prevarication.
I still stick to point that taking a refund is a bad option if you expect any other expenses except air fare. Once you have cancellled and asked for refund, any expenses afterwards will not be responsibly of airline. Never take refund until you are in situation you have nothing more to claim
If you are away from home the airline has a duty of care…
It just doesn’t say this anywhere in EU/UK261.
Even easyJet paid out when I claimed Art.9 Right to Care expenses after I applied for a refund when my flight had been cancelled.BA have replied again with a much better update (actually reading my complaint this time) not ideal timing as I wrote and posted a letter to them earlier with all evidence. Maybe the follow ups to Sean’s email address prompted someone to recheck their auto-reply.
So far they have offered to fully reimburse the cost of the new flights I paid for which is a good start.
Regarding reimbursing the Madrid to London leg we couldn’t take due to them cancelling the ticket, interestingly they now describe it as ‘denied boarding’. Their explanation below (spelling errors are theirs).
II can see you mentioned, when you were ready to embark on your return journey on 16 March 2025, you were denied boarding. You had contacted us ot advised, you were denied boarding for your return journey and you were advised by our advisors on our phone lines, you had gone down as a No Show, on your first outbound flight operated by Iberia Airlines and unfortunately led to your return flight being cancelled. I can see the agent had advised, for you to create a new booking for one way return flight from Madrid to London. Which you’ve provided us with a copy of your alternative air travel, booked directly with Iberia Airlines and your boarding pass.
They then explain that whilst they’re happy to reimburse the (considerable) amount I had to pay for the one way replacement flights, they say they can’t reimburse the unused leg we’d already paid for:
“My supervisor had advised, we could apply our Alternative Air Travel policy, to your booking, where we can look into reimbursing you for the new flights, however this would mean we wouldn’t be able to refund you for the original booking, as you were able to complete your travels.”
We were only able to complete our travels as we paid for new flights out of our own pocket due to their mistake, so why wouldn’t they reimburse for the leg they cancelled? Would they only reimburse the unused leg if we were still stranded in Madrid to this day?
They then offer additional compensation and again classify this as denied boarding, offering an evoucher. Aren’t we entitled to cash compensation? Although as below I think this is considerably less than their compensation offer:
In regards to being denied boarding on 16 March 2025, my supervisor had advised as the No Show cancellation, was caused by system fault, you are eligible for denied boarding compensation also. This has been calculated in accordance with UK law and as per our Customer Service Policy Manual, this means you’re entitled to compensation in the form of an eVoucher for £475.00 per person, to be used on future travel, when booking directly with British Airways.
They’ve already generated the e-vouchers and shared the details. I probably need correcting but when looking the legislation up, 250 Euros compensation is owed per passenger. I’ve calculated this as the flight is 1250km, and the rules states 1500km or less means 250 EUR compensation. Is this accurate and therefore is BA’s offer of £475 per person ‘generous’?
I’ve had an e-voucher before and found it hard to use. If this is the better option vs c. £200 cash each, I’d want it to be useable against taxes/fees or combined into one voucher so we can use it for a holiday booking. I’m not even sure it can be used for holidays. Any tips here would be appreciated.
Finally, and this is pushing it, the tier points weren’t awarded for the outbound nor the Avios. I planned to upgrade my inbound flight with cash (it was available for about £175) as the two flights would’ve got me to the threshold to retain bronze. This has now been made impossible. Should I push them to manually reinstate this?
You took the flight so yes, you should get the TPs and avios.
What a shambles, though if you’re happy with e-vouchers, you’ve actually come out of it quite well!
I’m struggling a bit to get past the appalling level of written English in the responses 🤦🏻♀️😂
@sturgeon – that’s a phenomenal result! You think BA has read whatever you sent, but they haven’t, so you have been offered vastly more than that to which you are statutorily entitled, even if some is in the form of vouchers.
You should obviously get the TP/Avios for the outbound but for the inbound, I don’t think you can realistically ask for more than you booked, rather than what you planned to do. The reimbursement of your new tickets is essentially an either/or – you don’t get a refund of the original tickets + reimbursement of the new. BA gets to keep the original sum paid. You are supposed to be put back in the position you were in, not be enriched. The denied boarding offer is in itself extraordinary, let alone at the rate offered.
All the Clouseaus with their DSARs etc. will still be waiting a long time to get anything. It is totally unsurprising that BA has immediately acknowledged the system error.
Thanks both. I think I’ll accept then but will enquire if the two evouchers (for each passenger) can be used on one trip we can both travel on, and if it can be applied to a BA holiday. Or if it can be combined into a single voucher.
Is the cash compensation 200 euros for denied boarding in this case? Hence it’s deemed to be such a good result? Plus the fact it wasn’t technically denied boarding…
@Sturgeon very pleased you have not been put through the months of struggle and uncertainty so many have to go through.
What you’ve received is about right. BA has agreed to reimburse you exactly what you paid out for your rerouting. In return they do get to keep your original fare cost though. Which is how things work.
Working this in Euros, you are also owed 250 euros statutory compensation each for Denied Boarding So that amounts to 500 Euros due for the 2 of you. The £475 BA has offered for this ie 570, ie 70 euros more than the 500 due, so 35 euros (£29) extra per person. So in Euros, 11% uplift over the strictly statutorily necessary.
[E570-(2*E250)=E70/2=E35 (about £29) per person].If BA calculated the Denied Boarding compensation using the Pounds Sterling compensation value, then you were owed 2*£220=£440 versus the £475 offered. So their generosity would only amount to £17.50 per person So in GBP 8% uplift over the strictly statutorily necessary.[£475-(2*£220)=£35/2=£17.50 per person].
Is £17.50 extra each enough for taking an e-voucher that must be spent with British Airways, no doubt within a restricted period? Only you can snswer that for yourself but my response to BA would be “Show me the money” ie the cash, refusing their cheeky assumptive close of an e-voucher and requesting cash instead. As 8% or 11% does not compensate for the restrictions of an e-voucher I don’t have to take when I’m entitled to the statutory amount in cash. YMMV.
JDB Quote “It is totally unsurprising that BA has immediately acknowledged the system error.”
…Still trying to work this one out JDB. I don’t call a 6-page thread in which the OP has recounted asking BA to fix this multiple, multiple times by both calling and in writing, “BA immediately acknowledged the error.” Really, ??? 🙂
And yeah, given the possibility of short data overwrite cycles and the preposterousness of being told you didn’t take a flight when you did, and this being denied more than once by airlines, my first recourse faced with this would be a DSAR as evidence is being denied and may disappear. If airlines don’t like it then they can clean up their operations snd not put oassengers through what they put these passengers through.
@LadyLondon – most of the six pages aren’t written by the OP but rather DSAR/breach of contract warriors on a mission that was never necessary. BA acknowledged the issue as soon as it was addressed by a customer relations person and BA has admitted liability in full, within about ten days.
The OP said they were offered £475 per person so all your calculations etc. don’t apply.
@Sturgeon very pleased you have not been put through the months of struggle and uncertainty so many have to go through.
What you’ve received is about right. BA has agreed to reimburse you exactly what you paid out for your rerouting. In return they do get to keep your original fare cost though Which is how things work.
Working this in Euros, you are also owed 250 euros statutory compensation each for Denied Boarding So that amounts to 500 Euros due for the 2 of you. The £475 BA has offered for this ie 570, ie 70 euros more than the 500 due, so 35 euros (£29) extra per person. So in Euros, 11% uplift over the strictly statutorily necessary.
[E570-(2*E250)=E70/2=E35 per person].If BA calculated the Denied Boarding compensation using the Pounds Sterling compensation value, then you were owed 2*£220=£440 versus the £475 offered. So their generosity would only amount to £17.50 per person So in GBP 8% uplift over the strictly statutorily necessary.[£475-(2*£220)=£35/2=£17.50 per person].
Is £17.50 extra each enough for taking an e-voucher that must be spent with British Airways, no doubt within a restricted period? Only you can snswer that for yourself but my response to BA would be “Show me the money” ie the cash, refusing their cheeky assumptive close of an e-voucher and requesting cash instead. As 8% or 11% does not compensate for the restrictions of an e-voucher I don’t have to take when I’m entitled to the statutory amount in cash. YMMV.
JDB Quote “It is totally unsurprising that BA has immediately acknowledged the system error.”
…Still trying to work this one out JDB. I don’t call a 6-page thread in which the OP has recounted asking BA to fix this multiple, multiple times by both calling and in writing, “BA immediately acknowledged the error.” Really, ??? 🙂
And yeah, given the possibility of short data overwrite cycles and the preposterousness of being told you didn’t take a flight when you did, and this being denief more than once by airlines, my first recourse faced with this would be a DSAR as evidence is being denied and may disappear. If airlines don’t like it then they can clean up their operations snd not put oassengers through what they put these passengers through.
Thanks a lot for all your help! What they’ve actually offered is £475 evoucher each, so it does look like this is generous and well above the cash compensation that is otherwise owed. Mistake or not, I do think in this circumstance and based on how shockingly poor this incident was (plus the hours on the phone during the holiday which should have been restful), £950 contribution towards a BA holiday is really decent. Their terms do say it can be used against a holiday but you have to fill in a form at a broken link, or ‘call them’. I have a large stash of Avios so will likely book for one person using both vouchers (this seems acceptable in their terms) and book the secondary flight using Avios.
If it’s per person then the over and above due compensatipn is £255 or 320 euros per person so in that case I would consider there was some apology there and would take an e-voucher provided it’s absolutely per person.
JdB I gave up counting around page 3 or 4 of how many times the OP has asked BA multiple times to fix this. I can only think the email to Sean must have helped for such a most unusually prompt volte-facw after repeated stonewalling on earlier attempts.
@LadyLondon – what’s also not included in your calculations is that the OP wasn’t even entitled to denied boarding compensation. Anything received on that front is a bonus. The text from BA does not accord with what the OP told us; sometimes the fact BA doesn’t read stuff properly can work in your favour.
Thanks both. I think I’ll accept then but will enquire if the two evouchers (for each passenger) can be used on one trip we can both travel on, and if it can be applied to a BA holiday. Or if it can be combined into a single voucher.
Is the cash compensation 200 euros for denied boarding in this case? Hence it’s deemed to be such a good result? Plus the fact it wasn’t technically denied boarding…
I have used two vouchers on flight for myself, husband and son so yes you can do this. Also on the holidays front I believe you can but need to call up to do so.
That’s £950 worth of vouchers and you have a year to use them, seems like a good result to me for all the stress and worry.
And yeah, given the possibility of short data overwrite cycles and the preposterousness of being told you didn’t take a flight when you did, and this being denied more than once by airlines, my first recourse faced with this would be a DSAR as evidence is being denied and may disappear. If airlines don’t like it then they can clean up their operations snd not put oassengers through what they put these passengers through.
Agreed. The days of chivalry in doing business are long over. A consumer ought arm themselves with information sources that may come in handy and be long deleted by the time a deadlock scenario is reached. I fully support wider refusals of SARs that are manifestly unfounded, especially in stretched public services. This case always had a legitimate reason for the request. It is however wonderful news that Sturgeon achieved an outcome at this stage, without needing the support of a SAR response from Gatwick or Iberia. Others won’t be so fortunate in future and will value the data provided to them.
Great result and great to hear. At least they’re doing what they should and it’s refreshing to hear they (rather than you) are mentioning the involuntary denial of boarding compensation. Hope it’s all resolved soon – sounds like it will be.
For me: was it the email to Sean Doyle’s office that prompted a response? I should do this more if so!
Just another update. They’ve come back to confirm they’ve switched the two vouchers to one combined just in case I face any issues. No confirmation it can be used for holidays but the website says so and I’ll need to call to check.
I also asked for the missing Avios/tier points. They can’t add them for some reason, however they’ve now gone and added 50k Avios to my account as a further gesture. Obviously vastly more than I would’ve received in the first place.
So I do feel more than adequately compensated for everything. Not sure if the email to Sean helped push this through but it’s a good result.
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