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So I’ve received a response which looks like an auto reply. Absolutely zero acknowledgement of my claims for reimbursement, I feel like as I entered this into the general complaint section (not flight cancellation as it wasn’t ‘cancelled’ they’ve treated it as general feedback. I’m really p*ssed off. How do I get them to actually read it or take it seriously? I’d phone but it seems to get to a team in India, how to I speak to someone in the UK?
By the way Gatwick have located footage of us heading towards the gate with plenty of time to spare. They don’t have cctv at the boarding gate which is weird. So that’s yet another evidence point.
“
An apology from British AirwaysWe’re very sorry to hear about your recent experience with British Airways. This isn’t what you should expect of us and we appreciate you taking the time to let us know. We’d also like to thank you for your patience while we got back to you.
Please be assured that your feedback has made a difference. Your comments have been shared with the relevant team and we’ll be using them to help us to improve.
As with any large organisation, it can sometimes take time for us to fix problems, but nothing is forgotten. We’re focused on making continuous improvements across all areas of our business, and we hope you’ll see these positive changes soon.
Once again, please accept our apologies for your experience on this trip. We hope to welcome you back on board soon.”
Rather than hypothesising (catastrophising), just ask BA to make it good. It is poor it wasn’t resolved earlier (before the return flight) but we all know it needs to get to the right person/dept to get resolved.
As for DSAR requests, given that it is airside I’m not sure that the law applies (IANAL). In any case it can easily be refused on grounds of security. If the OP took it to a small claims, then there is already ample data to show on the balance of probabilities that the flight was taken.
Let BA investigate and refund you, rather than escalate it. The process takes time, and I am sure eventually all will be right in the world. If you want to escalate/expedite then fill in a small claim and send to BA before filing – it might make it to the legal team that will resolve it quicker.
A side note on this to avoid confusing the OP:
“As for DSAR requests, given that it is airside I’m not sure that the law applies” – the law applies. GDPR is location neutral.
“In any case it can easily be refused on grounds of security” – no it can’t, which I said at the time I suggested it. Gatwick Airport is in scope of the GDPR for general processing, not the law enforcement directive. Even if CCTV footage is processing personal data for the purpose of preventing and detecting crime, subject access rights still apply. The request could be refused if to respond would prejudice an organisation’s ability to prevent and detect crime, but that’s for situations where say you were stopped by airport security for theft of duty free perfumes, then immediately submitted a SAR. In this case the OP has engaged in no alleged criminal behaviour that could be prejudiced.
In any event, it sounds like Gatwick Airport have correctly reacted to the SAR and were able to quickly identify the data to start preparing their response.
A side note on this to avoid confusing the OP:
“As for DSAR requests, given that it is airside I’m not sure that the law applies” – the law applies. GDPR is location neutral.Well it isn’t. Ask Amazon (AWS) and they’ll let you choose where to store your data. As the UK Govt are about to find out (case against Apple) one can’t pretend that your local laws apply everywhere. That said, I double checked and you are correct. In this case, airside is not relevant – so thanks for correcting me.
@sturgeon as previously said, this is BAs tactic. They will simply not respond to you (I have never had a substantive response to any of my complaints to BA outside CEDR). The one I’ve let run is almost at 7 months.
I would:
– submit your DSARs at one month, so you have the info for CEDR at 2 months. Make sure you ask for all recordings of conversations, as well as all notes on the bookings, and any internal emails sent about this. Ensure you do a DSAR to Iberia too.
– at 2 months, escalate to CEDR with your evidence.The escalation will in effect force BA to respond.
Make sure you include a claim for EC261 compensation. They do not have to pay it if they cancel you if you do not fly your outbound. Incorrectly believing you didn’t fly the outbound, and then refusing to correct it when you ask, is not an an acceptable reason to cancel you. That’s why it’s important you have evidence you tried to correct it.
I think this is also a case the media would be interested in, as the CCTV makes it clear cut. Ask Tony of thisismoney is very good and responsive and the press attention will also spur BA in to action outside a formal CEDR route.
Outside these routes, S75 of your credit card may well be useful in the end of the rest doesn’t work. As they will be responsible for the replacement costs, not just the original costs.
@sturgeon as previously said, this is BAs tactic. They will simply not respond to you (I have never had a substantive response to any of my complaints to BA outside CEDR). The one I’ve let run is almost at 7 months.
I would:
– submit your DSARs at one month, so you have the info for CEDR at 2 months. Make sure you ask for all recordings of conversations, as well as all notes on the bookings, and any internal emails sent about this. Ensure you do a DSAR to Iberia too.
– at 2 months, escalate to CEDR with your evidence.The escalation will in effect force BA to respond.
Make sure you include a claim for EC261 compensation. They do not have to pay it if they cancel you if you do not fly your outbound. Incorrectly believing you didn’t fly the outbound, and then refusing to correct it when you ask, is not an an acceptable reason to cancel you. That’s why it’s important you have evidence you tried to correct it.
I think this is also a case the media would be interested in, as the CCTV makes it clear cut. Ask Tony of thisismoney is very good and responsive and the press attention will also spur BA in to action outside a formal CEDR route.
Outside these routes, S75 of your credit card may well be useful in the end of the rest doesn’t work. As they will be responsible for the replacement costs, not just the original costs.
Thanks. Why do I need to wait two months to submit to CEDR out of interest, can’t I do it now based on BA’s response so far?
Also can’t/shouldn’t I just start to submit a small claims court claim?
I can contact my credit card. Can’t I now also submit a travel insurance claim based on BAs response which effectively shuts down my complaint?
I will look into thisismoney and will also contact the Times your money matters column. I tried Simon. Calder but can’t see any way to contact him apart from an agent to book him.
You can’t submit a CEDR claim until you have a final response from BA, or two months have passed if you don’t get one. If you can write back asking if that’s their final response, and they confirm yes, then you can now.
For small claims court, you would have to give sufficient time for BA to respond (or have a final response) then send a letter before action, before actually submitting a claim. You are more likely to fall victim to procedural issues with the court unless you are confident or are legally trained.
Either way, I think you need to wait, or have confirmation this is the final response from BA. It may be a ‘holding’ response, but it is exceptionally poorly worded if it is.
Yes – you can contact your credit card. Although theoretically possible in parallel, I would make a choice if this is the route you want to go down – BA may suspend your complaint until the outcome of the S75 is known. You would have to make sure you are covered under S75 – check moneysavingsexpert for the rules. You will also have to make clear to the card provider you are claiming under Section 75 and not chargeback rules (this will get you the cost of restoring you to the correct position, not just the amount you paid). In reality I would wait until BA have responded/2m and then consider this route instead of CEDR *if* you are covered.
In conclusion, I would contact BA and ask if that’s their final response. If they say yes, then I would get your DSARs in and escalate to CEDR. If not I’d wait two months, and see if you get any response from BA, then escalate.
Continue your media contacting in parallel – even if BA pay promptly, it is totally unacceptable they left you stranded abroad.I’m not sure any travel insurance would cover this scenario.
@sturgeon – unfortunately everyone has sent you down the DSAR rabbit hole of irrelevance rather than focussing on getting your money back which I imagine is your primary concern.
All the processes above take far too long – even s75, if you had a claim at all takes at least 45 days. Obviously it was a big mistake to give BA the get out of making a general complaint and added a week of delay, but given where that has led and that you are of pocket, now write to the CEO’s office. Keep it brief, to the point, no emotional stuff. Bear in mind they will be super busy after yesterday.
@sturgeon – unfortunately everyone has sent you down the DSAR rabbit hole of irrelevance rather than focussing on getting your money back which I imagine is your primary concern.
All the processes above take far too long – even s75, if you had a claim at all takes at least 45 days. Obviously it was a big mistake to give BA the get out of making a general complaint and added a week of delay, but given where that has led and that you are of pocket, now write to the CEO’s office. Keep it brief, to the point, no emotional stuff. Bear in mind they will be super busy after yesterday.
Thanks, I’ve already written to Sean Doyle (I assume that’s the route you’re suggesting) and obviously I wasn’t expecting a response from him but I’ve heard no response nor any acknowledgment from his office. I can keep chasing but expect to hear nothing.
I’m a bit confused by your response, are you saying that raising a complaint was not the optimal route to getting my money back?
No. He’s making the point he believes DSARs are vexatious rather than useful in this scenario. Whatever you believe, they are not the route to sorting this out, but an adjunct to the route you’re taking, and are by no means mutually exclusive. The complaint route is the one you should be pursuing currently. Follow up with Sean Doyle and the complaint response you received making it clear this is a complaint and you expect reimbursement of the costs you have receipts for.
When you don’t get a positive response you will be very glad you have the DSAR evidence in hand.
When you don’t get a positive response you will be very glad you have the DSAR evidence in hand.
Nonsense. Proving you were at the airport can be provided by Google, or a taxi receipt, or just stating it. Small claims works on the “balance of probabilities”
Please, please, just ask BA to fix it and they will. I’ve got a picture of me at Mt Fuji, Doesn’t mean I climbed it 😁
Please, please, just ask BA to fix it and they will. I’ve got a picture of me at Mt Fuji, Doesn’t mean I climbed it 😁
He’s already asked BA to “fix it” several times. And they’ve 1) refused to on the telephone 2) thanked them for their feedback and probably closed the case in response to the formal complaint.
They really won’t sort it unless you push hard, and probably escalate externally. I really don’t know where you get this faith in BA from.
And gathering evidence through DSAR doesn’t affect this complaint process in any way. The internal BA notes, and recordings of calls are likely to be particularly helpful in showing BA being unreasonable when escalating.
@sturgeon – what I meant by the complaint point is that you went down a general complaint route littered with people complaining about trivia rather than making a claim, so your much more serious claim hasn’t been handled correctly.
@points_worrier – the problem with all these exhortations to rush to issue various DSARs is that they become vexatious because they are completely irrelevant and serve no purpose in this case. It’s the same with all this talk about breach of contract, barking up yet another wrong tree.PS how does any tape of BA allegedly being unreasonable help this claim?
Any focus on actually getting reimbursed seems to have been completely lost in pursuit of I’m not sure what.
You refer to BA being given several opportunities to fix the problem but that’s not strictly correct. The call centre simply can’t address the issue, then the wrong channel was used to make the claim. It’s actually not a question of “pushing hard” as you say, but pushing right.
@sturgeon – what I meant by the complaint point is that you went down a general complaint route littered with people complaining about trivia rather than making a claim, so your much more serious claim hasn’t been handled correctly.
@points_worrier – the problem with all these exhortations to rush to issue various DSARs is that they become vexatious because they are completely irrelevant and serve no purpose in this case. It’s the same with all this talk about breach of contract, barking up yet another wrong tree.PS how does any tape of BA allegedly being unreasonable help this claim?
Any focus on actually getting reimbursed seems to have been completely lost in pursuit of I’m not sure what.
You refer to BA being given several opportunities to fix the problem but that’s not strictly correct. The call centre simply can’t address the issue, then the wrong channel was used to make the claim. It’s actually not a question of “pushing hard” as you say, but pushing right.
I cannot see any route through their contact procedure to raise a claim for compensation unless you’re complaining about a cancelled flight. Therefore the only route I saw was to make a general complaint, which they’ve acknowledged and probably now closed. I’ve replied to ask if that’s their final response and for them to review it as they haven’t acknowledged the compensation/reimbursement request. I’ve also followed up to Sean Doyle’s email attaching the customer service response.
So just do a small claim. Slam dunk. Send it to BA before submitting it – sorted, everyone is happy.
There’s no Area 51 conspiracy here.
@sturgeon provided the person has tried to contact BA by any reasonable, or reasonably findable means and some evidence is kept, actually that’s deemed sufficient under consumer protection.
Obvs if BA has been easy to contact by a means clearly provided to deal with the matter and the consumer hasn’t followed this then that would be unreasonable. But it’s clear you’ve tried more than enough to have them sort this and BA’s failure to provide access channels and resourcing that are effective to resolve this urgent issue is not your fault as the innocent consumer.
Btw I still think you need to cover off Iberia as responsible, not sure if you should address them jointly.
It’s just shoddy that your trip has effectively been hugely ruined as a result of having to stress about this, put in the time and make all sorts of efforts to resolve a problem cauaed by airline incompetence.
@sturgeon – what I meant by the complaint point is that you went down a general complaint route littered with people complaining about trivia rather than making a claim, so your much more serious claim hasn’t been handled correctly.
@points_worrier – the problem with all these exhortations to rush to issue various DSARs is that they become vexatious because they are completely irrelevant and serve no purpose in this case. It’s the same with all this talk about breach of contract, barking up yet another wrong tree.PS how does any tape of BA allegedly being unreasonable help this claim?
Any focus on actually getting reimbursed seems to have been completely lost in pursuit of I’m not sure what.
You refer to BA being given several opportunities to fix the problem but that’s not strictly correct. The call centre simply can’t address the issue, then the wrong channel was used to make the claim. It’s actually not a question of “pushing hard” as you say, but pushing right.
It’s not the customer’s responsibility that the BA call centre doesn’t have the authority to solve this. The call centre is the primary route of contact, and as such it SHOULD HAVE THE AUTHORITY.
It’s not the customer’s responsibility that the BA call centre doesn’t have the authority to solve this. The call centre is the primary route of contact, and as such it SHOULD HAVE THE AUTHORITY.
… in an ideal world, yes. But realistically, in this day and age, no — however, if they can’t, the advice should be “I do not have the power to help with this, you need to do XXX” not just denying the claim.
@sturgeon – what I meant by the complaint point is that you went down a general complaint route littered with people complaining about trivia rather than making a claim, so your much more serious claim hasn’t been handled correctly.
similarly, if it’s the wrong route BA should advise something along the lines of “thank you for your feedback, blah blah ignored you blah, if you wish to place a substantive claim for restitution in then you need to do XXX”, not just close the complaint down.
Personally, at this point, I’d write a letter (proper one, with a stamp) before action to BA legal. At least a human being will take the trouble to read it, and if that person isn’t empowered to fix the issue, they will work in the same team as someone who is. I suspect it will then (very slowly, with little communication) get resolved. But I guess you can wait for the results of the escalation to Sean “Spectator” Doyle first.
This is such a mess – and the root cause looks like Iberia failed to correctly keep records of who exactly was on their aircraft. WHich from the point of view of safety would be a very serious breach.
For this reason alone I’d be gathering neutral objective evidence as well as my own – right now by doing the DSARs straight away. Evidence and records may be on short overwrite cycles or disappear. If by the time you ask, anything is not present, they don’t have to give it to you and there’s not really any remedy.
As what’s happened to you is so preposterous do the DSARs now anyway just to be sure to have the objective proofs in case.
I think we all agree don’t blame the customer for BA’s lack of coherent and competent communication channels
I think we all agree don’t blame the customer for BA’s lack of coherent and competent communication channels
That’s right, but as this is the reality for most organisations these days, not just airlines, the customer needs to be realistic about that and smarter at navigating the ‘system’ to get results rather than railing about them. You mentioned in an earlier post that the BA call centre should have had the authority to deal with this situation, but again that’s just not a realistic expectation for call centre staff that most companies have disempowered for obvious reasons, so again self help becomes critical.
I think the root cause of the problem is that IB and BA have a miscommunication problem. Their systems routinely fail to credit TP and cause problems with seat selection or check in. But worse BA simply blames IB and IB blames BA and neither takes responsibility for the issue.
There is a post over on FT on the thread about the power station fire closure of Heathrow on Friday where BA initially refused to reroute or refund a passenger with GGL status who had booked a BA code share flight on IB metal as according to BA Iberia hadn’t cancelled the flight. It took the passenger being forceful and pointing out to the Customer Servuce agent that the BBC website along with virtually every other media publication had reports that EVERY flight scheduled to depart LHR had been cancelled and that the airport was closed.
They have a significant IT and personnel communication problem.
I think we all agree don’t blame the customer for BA’s lack of coherent and competent communication channels
That’s right, but as this is the reality for most organisations these days, not just airlines, the customer needs to be realistic about that and smarter at navigating the ‘system’ to get results rather than railing about them. You mentioned in an earlier post that the BA call centre should have had the authority to deal with this situation, but again that’s just not a realistic expectation for call centre staff that most companies have disempowered for obvious reasons, so again self help becomes critical.
Firstly what do you mean by self help.
If you mean don’t go away without wherewithal to buy another ticket in emergencies and feed house yourselves for extended periods whilst away. Then I thoroughly agree. But this contradicts what you have said in earlier post about needing refund money.
If you mean knowing of a better way to contact airlines except though contact centers then please share the secret with the rest of us. The orginal poster did all that anyone without inside special knowledge could do to contact BA,that’s all that consumer law expects.
Yes I agree most companies have emasculated contact centers, but multiple wrongs don’t make it right. There should be a way for contact center to recognise serious of situations and escalate it to the right person
@Garethgerry – there’s no contradiction. Some people can afford to be out of funds, but a great many can’t and some of those that can afford to wait, myself included, would rather minimise the sum in dispute for a multiplicity of obvious reasons.
You are a very experienced traveller and have told us you had a senior job, so I am sure you are very capable of navigating the vagaries of different airline customer service systems. Unfortunately, it’s totally understandable why call centres have been emasculated and that won’t change but when I refer to self help, I’m talking about accepting that things are the way they are and acting accordingly. There are ways and means of asking call centre staff to get things done and one regularly sees people here asking for the wrong thing or reporting that they insisted or demanded BA do x, or I cited the law to them etc. which usually will get you nowhere. It’s the same when people post a problem that’s so muddled no BA agent is going to understand it either. When writing to an airline, a real letter addressed to the right person is often better than an email and how it’s written and presented makes a huge difference. Etc. etc.
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