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Sturgeon
“messages about the absolute mess that took place on board with us facing doubly booked seats, the uber receipt showing us leaving the correct terminal at Madrid about 45 mins after landing, email from the hotel confirming we checked in etc plus our Gatwick train tickets and journey history showing we made it to London Bridge on time, there’s more than enough evidence there to show that it’s extremely likely we were on the plane. I hope they have a record of scanning us into the BA lounge at Gatwick too. Otherwise, they’d be accusing of us of being airside at Gatwick, missing our flight and somehow booking a new flight that must have left the same time as our booked flight to somehow arrive at Madrid to take a departing taxi at the same time we would have we been on our original flight. If they do decline to fully reimburse new tickets and the cancelled return I cannot see why a small court claim wouldn’t go in our favour.”Thank you for making me chuckle at the mountain of evidence you have that you took the flight @Sturgeon. I’m very glad your flight back is with BA as, unless there is no one of any authority on duty for BA at MAD today, I am sure they will do the right thing.
Not worth bringing up with BA at all, but if things got really sticky and if you’d been forced to deal with Iberia and could prove you were on the flight, and I think this must be provable, I’d suspect the Spanish authorities wouldn’t be too impressed to know that Iberia couldn’t account for someone who actually was on a flight as this threatens air safety.
Please let us know how it turns out.
Sadly my new booked flight back to London is also with Iberia 😂
They’ve already moved our seats after we’ve had our boarding passes following check in last night. Most passengers wouldn’t even check the app again. I’m
sure they will be waiting with flowers at the gate and will upgrade us to lie flat seats on the lovely A350 back to London and shower us with Avios on arrival. But…in all seriousness, I’ll update this chat once I’m back and have lodged the claim with BA. Assuming I’m let back in seeing as we can’t possibly have been here in Madrid/or we were stowaways.I would get a physical boarding pass at the airport for the flight back to the UK.
Also take a photo of yourself on the plane in your newly assigned seat.
I hope you get your money back for the flights you’ve purchased. I think you’ll have a battle but wish you luck.
that doesn’t particularly help as BA isn’t at fault but has simply acted as any airline would upon notification of a no show
If the customer had showed up to the airport and only then pointed out what’d happened, then yes.
However, in this case, the customer got in touch well in advance of the flight to resolve the issue, furthermore supplying the appropriate evidence (perhaps not proof sure, but like anything, proof is almost impossible, and this sort of thing just has to be judged on the most likely outcome).
Sure they do. But the OP tells us in this case that they’ve supplied some quite convicing evidence. It’s not a bare assertion.
@Avant – a BA call centre agent does not have the requisite skills to analyse the relevant evidence and is anyway not empowered to act upon such evidence. As above, the world has changed because passengers can no longer be trusted to tell the truth. BA used to do people favours and resolve these issues but it’s no longer realistic.
BA doesn’t trust its own staff either.
OP entered into a contract with BA. BA are in breach of contract.
Legality aside, a decent airline would have honoured the return ticket given the uncertainty as to their data.
Your first paragraph is incorrect. BA was advised (erroneously) by Iberia that the passenger breached the contract by not taking the first flight, so BA was contractually entitled to take the step of cancelling. BA isn’t responsible for Iberia’s mistake when it’s acting as an agent.
As there are numerous posters talking most prematurely about legal action, one can’t really set aside the legalities, but you are right that BA should have resolved the situation as a matter of good customer service, without fuss once made aware of Iberia’s error. However, that is a different issue!
Unfortunately BA are just taking Iberias data point for us being ‘no shows’ as fact. I can see why they would but equally this claims the passengers have been dishonest and when I present evidence including timestamped messages about the absolute mess that took place on board with us facing doubly booked seats, the uber receipt showing us leaving the correct terminal at Madrid about 45 mins after landing, email from the hotel confirming we checked in etc plus our Gatwick train tickets and journey history showing we made it to London Bridge on time, there’s more than enough evidence there to show that it’s extremely likely we were on the plane. I hope they have a record of scanning us into the BA lounge at Gatwick too. Otherwise, they’d be accusing of us of being airside at Gatwick, missing our flight and somehow booking a new flight that must have left the same time as our booked flight to somehow arrive at Madrid to take a departing taxi at the same time we would have we been on our original flight. If they do decline to fully reimburse new tickets and the cancelled return I cannot see why a small court claim wouldn’t go in our favour.
@Sturgeon, no need for the second degree data points. CCTV from the airport, lounge entry records and passenger manifest (obviously redacted for other passengers’ info) are the ones that matter for factual proof.Submitting a GDPR subject access request should be done separately for you and your fellow traveller. Do be as helpful as possible in time-limiting and location-limiting your requests.
Requests to be sent to the email addresses or web forms as specified on the below webpages:
For CCTV, to Gatwick Airport: https://www.gatwickairport.com/privacy-policy.html
For the lounge entry records, to BA:
https://www.britishairways.com/content/information/legal/privacy-policyFor the passenger manifest, to Iberia:
https://www.iberia.com/gb/privacy-information/If no reaction from Iberia’s data rights team, try writing with recorded delivery to their UK representative:
Iberia Lae Operadora
Waterside (Americas 2A)
PO Box 365
Harmondsworth
UB7 0GBDo let me know if there’s any pushback on the requests by any of the above parties. They are all covered by the GDPR, for general processing of data. Not by its related 2018 law, the so-called Law Enforcement Directive – where rights are generally harder to exercise. So short shrift should be given to any claims that they are acting as a law enforcement body in collecting said data on you.
@Sturgeon, no need for the second degree data points. CCTV from the airport, lounge entry records and passenger manifest (obviously redacted for other passengers’ info) are the ones that matter for factual proof.
^^^ this ^^^
… also, although Iberia may be at fault, BA is the party with which you booked, and thus have a contract, and should be the party that ultimately needs to be served with “papers” for MCOL. Although I really doubt it will come to that, a well submitted collection of evidence to BA legal will doubtless be sufficient.
@BlairWaldorfSalad – all that is entirely unnecessary and real overkill. BA will not dispute the facts once a claim is lodged. These rights are best saved for when they are really needed.
@BlairWaldorfSalad – all that is entirely unnecessary and real overkill. BA will not dispute the facts once a claim is lodged. These rights are best saved for when they are really needed.
— whilst this is true, I’m sure BA will not dispute the facts, things like CCTV tend to be rapidly deleted. If you think you might need it, get a claim in quickly. All too often people raise a complaint, get involved in months of too-ing and fro-ing, then submit a DSAR to find the things they needed no longer exist. IANAL.
@Avant – a BA call centre agent does not have the requisite skills to analyse the relevant evidence and is anyway not empowered to act upon such evidence. As above, the world has changed because passengers can no longer be trusted to tell the truth. BA used to do people favours and resolve these issues but it’s no longer realistic.
BA doesn’t trust its own staff either.
The customer has made a lot of effort to give the company the opportunity and accurate information needed to resolve the issue. It’s up to the company to take that or not as relevant. It’s a business choice they make not to, and not a straightforward matter of “not realistic”.
It ain’t the customer’s problem if the agent can’t, for example, log a ticket and get a same day resolution from the next most senior person in the office. Clearly there was ample time given for that to happen in this case. It’s the customer service department’s choice to give the repeated “computer says no” answer.
@Sturgeon, no need for the second degree data points. CCTV from the airport, lounge entry records and passenger manifest (obviously redacted for other passengers’ info) are the ones that matter for factual proof.
^^^ this ^^^
… also, although Iberia may be at fault, BA is the party with which you booked, and thus have a contract, and should be the party that ultimately needs to be served with “papers” for MCOL. Although I really doubt it will come to that, a well submitted collection of evidence to BA legal will doubtless be sufficient.
I would imagine it will be resolved after the fact at the formal complaint stage, in line with the usual complaints handling process. Of course doing it that way will still cost more than correcting the error up front in that they’ll have to sign off a large bill for OP’s costs for the new tickets.
With luck the bare minimum back will be the full price of the replacement tickets plus some kind of avios bung…
@BlairWaldorfSalad – all that is entirely unnecessary and real overkill. BA will not dispute the facts once a claim is lodged. These rights are best saved for when they are really needed.
— whilst this is true, I’m sure BA will not dispute the facts, things like CCTV tend to be rapidly deleted. If you think you might need it, get a claim in quickly. All too often people raise a complaint, get involved in months of too-ing and fro-ing, then submit a DSAR to find the things they needed no longer exist. IANAL.
Exactly; make haste with the request. What the poster does with the data provided is up to them at a later date.
@BlairWaldorfSalad and @memesweeper – the only thing that matters is the passenger manifest and that will not be deleted and nor will it be required. The CCTV and lounge entry records prove absolutely nothing, so seeking those is really just petulant time wasting as it does nothing to assist the OP in resolving their case.
All this is making such a ridiculous mountain out of a molehill for zero purpose. There was just a simple IT error by Iberia. That’s all.
@BlairWaldorfSalad and @memesweeper – the only thing that matters is the passenger manifest and that will not be deleted and nor will it be required. The CCTV and lounge entry records prove absolutely nothing, so seeking those is really just petulant time wasting as it does nothing to assist the OP in resolving their case.
All this is making such a ridiculous mountain out of a molehill for zero purpose. There was just a simple IT error by Iberia. That’s all.
An error so simple they refused to correct it after several times of asking 😉
Luckily, if this goes to court, the proof is on the basis of the balance of probabilities.
@Avant – As before, a BA call centre agent or even their supervisor is simply not in a position to or empowered to check whether there was an error by Iberia let alone correct the mistake, however simple. It’s more complicated because the error was apparently made by a different airline.
You will find exactly that same absence of empowerment at other airlines and e.g. banks/financial services companies. These people are recruited and (poorly) paid to effect transactions, follow rules (i.e. computer says) but not to make decisions or judgements. Almost all discretion was unsurprisingly removed some years ago.
Luckily, if this goes to court, the proof is on the basis of the balance of probabilities.
Indeed, but the proof the pax was on board may not in fact be the most pertinent issue!
@BlairWaldorfSalad and @memesweeper – the only thing that matters is the passenger manifest and that will not be deleted and nor will it be required. The CCTV and lounge entry records prove absolutely nothing, so seeking those is really just petulant time wasting as it does nothing to assist the OP in resolving their case.
All this is making such a ridiculous mountain out of a molehill for zero purpose. There was just a simple IT error by Iberia. That’s all.
An error so simple they refused to correct it after several times of asking 😉
As before, a BA call centre agent or even their supervisor is simply not in a position to or empowered to check whether there was an error by Iberia let alone correct the mistake, however simple. It’s more complicated because the error was apparently made by a different airline.
You will find exactly that same absence of empowerment at other airlines and e.g. banks/financial services companies. These people are recruited and paid to effect transactions, follow rules (i.e. computer says) but not to make decisions or judgements. Almost all discretion was unsurprisingly removed some years ago.
@BlairWaldorfSalad and @memesweeper – the only thing that matters is the passenger manifest and that will not be deleted and nor will it be required. The CCTV and lounge entry records prove absolutely nothing, so seeking those is really just petulant time wasting as it does nothing to assist the OP in resolving their case.
All this is making such a ridiculous mountain out of a molehill for zero purpose. There was just a simple IT error by Iberia. That’s all.
An error so simple they refused to correct it after several times of asking 😉
As before, a BA call centre agent or even their supervisor is simply not in a position to or empowered to check whether there was an error by Iberia let alone correct the mistake, however simple. It’s more complicated because the error was apparently made by a different airline.
You will find exactly that same absence of empowerment at other airlines and e.g. banks/financial services companies. These people are recruited and paid to effect transactions, follow rules (i.e. computer says) but not to make decisions or judgements. Almost all discretion was unsurprisingly removed some years ago.
As before, that’s entirely their problem.
Iberia wouldn’t have me on the manifest as they think we were no shows for the flights. That’s the whole point. They also didn’t correctly log when we moved seats to them update records despite them asking my name and for my boarding pass when in my final seat.
Should I also be logging a travel insurance claim as I’d expect they would pay out for this? If I paid for the original and replacement tickets for me and the other passenger (who’s not on my insurance but has their own policy) am I eligible for the full amount? Obviously I’ll complain via BA but it’s struck me that this should be an insurance claim that should near guarantee payment.
The insurance company will simply say and rightly it’s BAs responsibility
BA will see sense and pay up eventually.
As you didn’t try to get on orginal flight, even you’d just turned up at check-in and showed eticket reciept , and were refused, you can’t claim denied boarding as you weren’t denied.
Can we get back to basics. Contract is with BA – not with IB. BA are in breach of that contract. If BA incorrectly advised by IB that’s a BA/IB issue. It’s not for customer to prove they didn’t fly outbound – it’s for BA to prove. Clearly with available evidence that’s not going to happen. BA will see sense – if not easy case to win in court.
This is all getting rather speculative until a complaint has been lodged and responded to. Log all the details clearly and concisely and hopefully someone will join up the dots.
As already advised don’t confuse the issue with BA or Iberia apps and certainly not Iberia ticket as there wasn’t one.
Probably worth contacting your travel insurer and logging a claim to start the ball rolling, but they aren’t going to pay out until or unless you’ve exhausted all avenues with BA.
It sounds like IB gate staff messed up and perhaps didn’t actually board you, possibly because there was a seat change and the system will not board you until the agent has resolved the seat mismatch between the scanner boarding pass and what it has stored. Then later they offloaded you as noshows while the crew on board resolved the issue themselves without contacting the ground staff, and I’m guessing as well the crew didn’t do a headcount (for ground staff to compare the total on board Vs boarded figures).
The noshowing and cancelling of the return journey is automatic, so the poster is probably not on the passenger manifest. In which case better to focus on getting proof from the airport that you arrived at.
Also tell BA you think the seating issues were due to not being boarded correctly, because the boarding system will prevent duplicate seats and refuse to board and you were never officially given a new seat number
As well as making a formal complaint to BA, I would suggest trying to get Simon Calder to take your case on. BA’s Press Office would make sure this was resolved properly and speedily. And the appalling way that BA have treated you deserves wider publicity.
BA deals with complaints using AI, that is when it bothers to answer them at all.
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