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Hi there,
Circa a year ago I booked a flight using a companion voucher and 2 weeks later when time came, I proceeded to book the return flight using the same booking and companion voucher. When I booked the return flight, the available seats were blocked, and I was told by BA representative that they were going to calculate the taxes and they would call me back with an answer.
They never called me and as time went by, I honestly forgot that they were supposed to call me and ended up never chasing them, especially because when looking on my app, I could see the return flight under my booking, and I could also book my seats in the plane, so I’ve always assumed everything was fine.
On Saturday when my return flight was due, I went to the airport and at the check-in I was told an e-ticket was never issued for the return flight so they couldn’t check us in. To further make things worse, as the flight was an avios redemption they couldn’t help me, and I had to call the Executive Club office in the UK to sort it out.
After almost 2 hours on the phone with the Executive Club they told me that because the taxes were never calculated and I never chased them, as the Avios were never taken out of my account and the taxes never paid the e-ticket was never issued.
In the end I was able to book an alternative flight and travel the following day.
The question I’m hoping you can help me with is whether or not I’m due a compensation due to what happen. Even though one can argue that I could have chased and could have kept an eye on my Avios statement, the action was on BA to calculate the taxes and contact me back to take payment which they admitted to me on Saturday they never done, making me to miss the flight as there was no longer enough time left to issue the e-ticket.
Many thanks in advance
Paging @JDB!
I “think” you have a case for IDB involuntarily denied boarding. The trouble is did you have a confirmed reservation for the return flight? I’m not sure but the fact that it was not ticketed and you never paid anything may count against you. The onus is on BA to issue the ticket. The onus is on you to check it has been ticketed before flying.
I think there may be some discussion of this exact problem in this thread:
https://www.headforpoints.com/forums/topic/missed-flight-due-to-agent-not-being-able-to-check-us-in/
I highly doubt anyone would forget to pay taxes and avios. Instead, you could see the return flight in your booking and you could book seats which gave you assurance that all was good despite not paying taxes and avios.
I hate to be the one to say it, but it sounds to me you tried to chance a free return flight and got caught out.
I highly doubt anyone would forget to pay taxes and avios. Instead, you could see the return flight in your booking and you could book seats which gave you assurance that all was good despite not paying taxes and avios.
I hate to be the one to say it, but it sounds to me you tried to chance a free return flight and got caught out.
Thanks for the time you took to reply to the post so that you could can someone dishonest.
Thanks for the time you took to reply to the post so that you could can someone dishonest.
A bit harsh on all sides. But seriously, I might have noticed if 100k Avios and £1k wasn’t taken out of my account.
Some people won’t notice. They aren’t the same people that read this forum 😉
I feel rather conflicted about this as I feel that people should take personal responsibility for their actions rather than seeking compensation from a company for what on the limited evidence offered is, at best, a mutual mistake.
Without any suggestion of dishonesty, I do struggle to believe that an Avios collector fails to notice that their balance is 100,000 higher than expected or that the ordinary man fails to notice that £500+ cash hasn’t been taken from their credit card. The two elements make it all the more improbable.
On a technical level, it’s possible that you are due denied boarding compensation but it will depend on more detailed facts and BA will fight you tooth and nail. When BA looks more closely at the case, it will become more apparent whether they did take any steps to contact you for the payment and they will rely on some of the elements suggested in this thread. In view of the failures by both parties I would question whether a claim is appropriate.
One of the issues is that with a household account, and transfers to Iberia and Qatar, I sincerely couldn’t tell you to within 100k (maybe 200k) avios that I have access to.
I would also add that with a couple of flights a month booked, and various ones cancelled (latest is BA back from HKG, so not all me!), I again couldn’t tell you my available balance at the end of the month within £1,000. Everything is set to pay automatically, and so – roughly monthly – I keep a look out for items I do not expect, rather than ones that are missing. That sort of thing is left for business accounts!
Lesson is: always check for ticket numbers. Mrs Mack learnt that the hard way with Amnerican Airlines at Denver once.
Lesson is: always check for ticket numbers. Mrs Mack learnt that the hard way with Amnerican Airlines at Denver once.
On a separate note, how do we actually check whether bookings have been ticketed? I tried to e-mail the e-ticket receipt from the app and website but it says “Sorry, an e-ticket is not available for the method of payment used for this booking.”
I looked at two separate bookings (both with avios) and they both say the same thing.
The initial email when you book should contain a ticket number
People are just busy, and most people would trust BA and trust BA will do the job correctly. I don’t think it at all unusual for a passenger just to know they’ve done their bit and leave the airline to get on with things, while they get on with the rest of their life, no matter what the sums involved.
Keep all evidence now and don’t lose it.
It’s a Denied Boarding claim as AJA has said and you should apply for compensation and also any out of pocket travel, hotel and extended jpurney time meals and any comms expenses to be reimbursed as well.
The passenger doesn’t have to justify himself for being too busy to have a clue that British Airways had failed to do what they said and were supposed to do.
Go for it and please post how it goes.
People are just busy, and most people would trust BA and trust BA will do the job correctly. I don’t think it at all unusual for a passenger just to know they’ve done their bit and leave the airline to get on with things, while they get on with the rest of their life, no matter what the sums involved.
Doing their bit is making sure they pay their avios and taxes. For BA, it’s making sure they collect the avios and taxes. There are faults on both sides.
If BA said they will call in a few days time but they don’t, I think most people will chase them regardless of how busy they are. I highly doubt that the OP was so busy, they decided to check the app to see the return flight on the booking and check if they can select seats but not check whether 100k(?) avios have been debited. It’s all done in the same app and takes 5 seconds to check the balance.
Now given the scenario that the OP can see their return flight and can select seats and (likely) saw no avios were removed, I think most people that don’t know about ticketing would keep their mouths shut and assume it is an error in their favour.
Unless someone travels so much and books so many flights that they lose track of all this, I also find it highly unusual for someone to forget to pay taxes+avios for a non-standard flight booking i.e. a companion avios flight booked 1 year in advance and having to call to book the return.
My opinion does not take away that this could still be a denied boarding claim as others have suggested
People are just busy, and most people would trust BA and trust BA will do the job correctly. I don’t think it at all unusual for a passenger just to know they’ve done their bit and leave the airline to get on with things, while they get on with the rest of their life, no matter what the sums involved.
Keep all evidence now and don’t lose it.
It’s a Denied Boarding claim as AJA has said and you should apply for compensation and also any out of pocket travel, hotel and extended jpurney time meals and any comms expenses to be reimbursed as well.
The passenger doesn’t have to justify himself for being too busy to have a clue that British Airways had failed to do what they said and were supposed to do.
Go for it and please post how it goes.
@LadyLondon – the difference here vs other slightly similar cases reported is that the passenger hadn’t paid. In other cases, the pax has paid but BA either hasn’t then issued the ticket or has issued the ticket incorrectly – that is then clearly BA’s error. For me, that’s a huge difference and the notion that someone was too busy or that most people wouldn’t notice they hadn’t paid the required Avios and cash is faintly ridiculous. The fact the passenger doesn’t have a ticket doesn’t necessarily mean UK261 isn’t engaged, but each case is individual and this one doesn’t feel appropriate for compensation as the passenger is just as responsible as BA.
I have had a similar situation before. I changed, by phoning, a 2-4-1 return CPT-LHR from PE to Club when availability appeared, the agent told me how many extra Avios, and took my credit card details for the extra ‘fees’. Next day I reserved seats online, so presumed all was well. The Avios were charged immediately, but it turns out the card was never charged, which I failed to notice. Couldn’t do OLCI, but nothing new there, bless BA IT, but at the airport, wasn’t allowed to check in, even though we had reserved seats, the agent could see us on the manifest, but ‘ticket says no’. Spent a quite frantic 2 hours on the phone to Exec club before finally being transferred to ticketing, who took the payment, got escorted through security and straight on to plane as they shut the doors behind us.
It’s not always someone trying to game the system or knowingly benefit from ‘bank error in your favour’.
@Not Long Now… one isn’t saying that anyone is necessarily trying to game the system but that there are two parties to the transaction and if you don’t pay for something, problems may ensue. In your case the Avios were taken and a smaller cash payment wasn’t, so a bit more understandable. In the OP’s it was a large amount of Avios and cash that weren’t taken; highly noticeable for most.
If an insurer by mistake didn’t take your premium would you just continue in blissful ignorance until you needed to make a claim?
In the instance reported by the OP, the passenger is equally culpable yet wants to claim compensation from the airline. It’s totally unreasonable.
@JDB I have similar misgivings as there is some responsibility on the part of the passenger but in both cases mentioned here the passenger could see the flight within MMB and actually reserve or select seats for the flight. So it appears to the passenger that they have a valid reservation.
My view is that outwardly it looks like you have a valid reservation even if it isn’t ticketed and payment hasn’t been taken. It clearly happens quite a lot. BA is also supposed to email an e-ticket receipt but we know that doesn’t always happen.
And while it is good practice to check that a reservation has actually been ticketed is it actually an obligation as a customer to do so or can we rely on it being the supplier’s fault since their systems clearly failed?
In the same way whose fault is it if a Direct Debit isn’t taken? A DD gives the supplier authority for its bank to take money from my bank account. If the supplier tries to take payment and my bank account has insufficient funds it’s clearly my fault but what happens if the supplier bank just fails to initiate the payment request? Why is that my fault?
I would say its the OP fault, they should have checked and seeking some compo on the back of their lack of planning is a joke.
People need to take responsibility for their own lives and actions.
@AJA – likewise if a supplier fails to take a DD, that doesn’t absolve you from the obligation to pay. There are two parties to the transaction and in real life, both will make mistakes.
If it’s a smallish sum, the customer might be forgiven for not noticing but when it’s a large sum (here involving two types of payment) of a one off nature for a specific service the customer has to accept some responsibility. It’s absolutely ridiculous not to notice the large amount of cash and Avios not taken in this instance. This situation is actually very rare.
Then to expect the airline to pay compensation – just incredible. And you wonder why airlines resist claims when they are bombarded with ridiculous ones like this.
@JDB, whilst I agree everyone should pay, not every consumer is switched on to noticing “not missing” Avios. I would, but I bet my mum wouldn’t.
But the real kicker is BA show the flight in the app. Consumers should not be materially mislead like this. It’s negligent and more than one person has been left stranded because of it.
@JDB I have similar misgivings as there is some responsibility on the part of the passenger but in both cases mentioned here the passenger could see the flight within MMB and actually reserve or select seats for the flight. So it appears to the passenger that they have a valid reservation.
I have no doubt that it would appear to be a valid reservation to the OP. But in this case, I’m calling it what it is, trying to chance an error in their favour. I highly doubt they forgot to pay the avios and taxes.
Ultimately OP took an opportunity and it didn’t work out.
@JDB, whilst I agree everyone should pay, not every consumer is switched on to noticing “not missing” Avios. I would, but I bet my mum wouldn’t.
Not missing 100k is a big deal to most. Not missing approx £500-£1000 is also a big deal to most. I personally don’t know your mum, but I’m assuming that she would notice not missing a few hundred in her account. And if BA told your mum that they would call her in a few days time to take avios and taxes, then she would chase.
Isn’t the rule to always check you have a 125- number, or is that not a guarantee either?
@JDB, whilst I agree everyone should pay, not every consumer is switched on to noticing “not missing” Avios. I would, but I bet my mum wouldn’t.
But the real kicker is BA show the flight in the app. Consumers should not be materially mislead like this. It’s negligent and more than one person has been left stranded because of it.
Well, your Mum is doing well to collect so many Avios that 100,000 is neither here nor there and sufficiently rich not to notice £500+!
Negligence has quite a specific meaning and I think the allegation of negligence in this instance is misconceived as is the idea that BA is misleading anyone here. Lots of types of reservations aren’t ticketed at the time of booking, including travel agent and corporate bookings and BAH bookings aren’t technically fully ticketed until you pay the balance. Do you want none of these to appear in MMB?
The app will show whether the booking has been ticketed but that may not help as if a booking is changed it may need to be re-ticketed rather than just re-validated such that a new ticket will usually be needed so the presence of the old ticket number may give a false comfort.
Sorry @JDB there was no question the pasenger wasn’t paying. At any time if BA asked fot the elements of payment the passenger had already completed authorisations for and thought BA was taking care of as they said they would, the passenger would have just done whatever was asked by BA to get it done. There was no issue about paying. However it was up to BA to take payments at the correct time and do the rest of the job on time and they didn’t.
Instead the passenger only found out when he was about to board the flight. His travel was disrupted by Involuntary Denied Boarding, with his confirmation that had been provided by BA, safely held in his email. He was inconvenienced and stressed and that is entirely BA’s fault. BA needs to compensate due to their own incompetence.
I’ve been that busy I wouldn’t even have noticed avios / cash not taken if I’d only booked the one flight. So will have many people here. And ticketing? Even though I worked for a travel agent it still would never occur to me to check for a ticket mumber today.I would just assume it has been done.
I find it absolutely appalling that airlines that make a mistake are OK to load any part of that onto a customer according to what I’m seeing here. And the accusations about the passenger intending not to pay or to profit from BA’s own mistake which BA is entirely responsible for, are just in poor taste.
I find it absolutely appalling that airlines that make a mistake are OK to load any part of that onto a customer according to what I’m seeing here. And the accusations about the passenger intending not to pay or to profit from BA’s own mistake which BA is entirely responsible for, are just in poor taste.
Just because (in your opinion) something is in poor taste, it doesn’t mean it’s not the real motive.
I’m just calling it as it is
I also think that while OP didn’t check that the ticket was issued and didn’t pay for the return flight in advance there appears not to have been the intention to fly without paying.
Is it the customer’s fault that BA has made ticketing a back-office function such that even at LHR T5, its home and main hub, you have to resort to phoning BA to resolve ticketing issues?
You really should be able to resolve ticketing issues at the airport and having to phone BAEC because its an Avios ticket and it taking two hours but failing to be able to doesn’t sit well with me.
As @memesweeper says the flight shows in the app. BA could amend the design of MMB to make the ticket number clearly visible such that it would be obvious a flight hasn’t been ticketed. I think that on balance most of the fault lies with BA and its awful IT and poor organisational structure.
So while I have misgivings I think on balance OP has a case for IDB compensation.
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