BA flight five hours late for “technical fault” but denied compensation
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Hi everyone
Back in June I took a BA Flight from London to Belfast. The flight arrived 5 hours after the scheduled arrival time. We were told it was a technical fault with the aircraft. I tried to claim compensation through the EU261 rule but BA declined this.
The flight boarded on time and we were ready to close doors and taxi back from the stand when the Captain said there was a technical fault and we had to wait on BA engineers to come and check it out. About 30 minutes later the Captain came over the tannoy and said the aircraft fault needed further investigation and this A320 would not be flying today. We were de-boarded and moved back into T5 departure lounge. 4 hours or so later, we were bussed to a new aircraft on a remote stand with new crew.
I put a claim in for compensation but was told I wasn’t entitled to any compensation as the aircraft in question was damaged by lightning on its inbound flight from Nice to LHR. So I checked the weather for the flight route from Nice to LHR at the time the aircraft was flying and cannot find any evidence of lightning. Of course, what I am able to check is the general weather on the ground below the flight route
Any advice? Is there a way of checking if the aircraft did encounter lightning on the inbound flight from Nice? Or indeed a way of checking the “fault” was indeed because of lightning? Or am I being too cynical and should just forget about it?
Thanks guys
The lightning strike is irrelevant, whether or not it happened. You were flying from BA’s main base, so they should have had a plane for you even if one was damaged on an entirely unrelated sector. If you were flying to LHR and the damage occurred on the outbound flight to wherever you were then BA might have a case, although I’m not sure even then.
Go back to them, write a couple of sentences pointing the above out and ask them if their answer won’t change. They should say that’s their final answer, at which point you can go to CEDR, where you should get the delay compensation.
Agree with Matt. You are entitled to compensation. Plus the fact that there was a new crew suggests that part of the delay was due to the original crew going out of hours. Crew is an operational issue fully under BA’s control and given you were at T5 they should have been able to source crew earlier.
Lightning strikes are tricky. The French Supreme Court determined they counted as ‘extraordinary circumstances’ but a slightly more recent English decision said it wasn’t, but as that decision was by a circuit judge, it’s not binding but might carry some weight, even though that judge is a little controversial.
The lightning strike is irrelevant, whether or not it happened. You were flying from BA’s main base, so they should have had a plane for you even if one was damaged on an entirely unrelated sector. If you were flying to LHR and the damage occurred on the outbound flight to wherever you were then BA might have a case, although I’m not sure even then.
Go back to them, write a couple of sentences pointing the above out and ask them if their answer won’t change. They should say that’s their final answer, at which point you can go to CEDR, where you should get the delay compensation.
BA did provide a new aircraft and crew!
I think it is relatively unlikely BA would cite a lightning strike unless it were true, as it is the sort of event that would be well documented by the flight crew.
Recital 15 does provide for rotational delays, so BA is OK on that front. Did they take all reasonable measures? Difficult to ascertain, as it is in this case down to timing.
my post disappeared here. Why is it happening again?
Mostly I’m typing one fingered on a phone and it feels as if effort has been wasted. Not nested not controversial. 4th time or so this week a post has been just lost.
@Lady London If you have a ‘Notes’ app on your smart phone, consider doing a draft reply there and then copying and pasting it to HfP.
Richie thanks but I should not have to do that.
I’m moving to Kazakhstan and becoming a spammer it’ll be easier to post from there
Lightning strikes are tricky. The French Supreme Court determined they counted as ‘extraordinary circumstances’ but a slightly more recent English decision said it wasn’t, but as that decision was by a circuit judge, it’s not binding but might carry some weight, even though that judge is a little controversial.
I think it is relatively unlikely BA would cite a lightning strike unless it was true, as it is the sort of event that would be well documented by the flight crew.
Recital 15 (not Article 15) does provide for rotational delays, so BA is OK on that front. Did they take all reasonable measures? Difficult to ascertain, but just because they are at their home base doesn’t mean they are required to have a spare aircraft to replace every one that develops a technical fault.
I think it is relatively unlikely BA would cite a lightning strike unless it was true, as it is the sort of event that would be well documented by the flight crew.
Recital 15 (not Article 15) does provide for rotational delays, so BA is OK on that front. Did they take all reasonable measures? Difficult to ascertain, but just because they are at their home base doesn’t mean they are required to have a spare aircraft and crew to replace every one that develops a technical fault at five minutes notice.
Lightning strike is copletely rrelevant as it affected the incoming flight. For any ecveotional circumstanve to count it has to affect your flight direvtly. Problems with the incomingvflightvare irrelevant. Even at outstationsbEU 261 expects airlines to have backup arrangements for aircraft and crew.
So you definitely are entitled to compensatiom. BA said it wasbavtechnuc fault but technical faults have beencjudged as the responsibility of the airline.
Send them an LBA snail mail addressed to Legal Dept signed-for at their Waterside address giving them, say,21 days to oay comlo.
Don’t forget to ckaim eimbursement for any extra hotels meals and comms under the separate duty of care parts of EU UK 261 as well. These arw dye regardless of compo due or not. And 241 seat has the same rights.Btw I do agree with BA : lightning strike and birdstrike are exceptional circs but totally irrelevant if they occur on the incoming or some other flight and not on your flight.
@Lady London Recital 15 provides for extraordinary circumstances affecting an aircraft to affect more than one flight; if they apply to the incoming flight, the same circumstances can apply to subsequent flights due to be operated by that aircraft.
Lightning strike is copletely rrelevant as it affected the incoming flight. For any ecveotional circumstanve to count it has to affect your flight direvtly. Problems with the incomingvflightvare irrelevant. Even at outstationsbEU 261 expects airlines to have backup arrangements for aircraft and crew.
So you definitely are entitled to compensatiom. BA said it wasbavtechnuc fault but technical faults have beencjudged as the responsibility of the airline.
Send them an LBA snail mail addressed to Legal Dept signed-for at their Waterside address giving them, say,21 days to oay comlo.
Don’t forget to ckaim eimbursement for any extra hotels meals and comms under the separate duty of care parts of EU UK 261 as well. These arw dye regardless of compo due or not. And 241 seat has the same rights.Btw I do agree with BA : lightning strike and birdstrike are exceptional circs but totally irrelevant if they occur on the incoming or some other flight and not on your flight.
This is incorrect per Recital 15 of EC261
They provided a new aircraft and crew, but after the cut off of 3 hours, ie too late.
By recital 15, do you mean this?
“Extraordinary circumstances should be deemed to exist where the impact of an air traffic management decision in relation to a particular aircraft on a particular day gives rise to a long delay, an overnight delay, or the cancellation of one or more flights by that aircraft, even though all reasonable measures had been taken by the air carrier concerned to avoid the delays or cancellations.”That’s talking about ATC decisions, or weather reducing the flow rate at Heathrow, not about BA failing to find a working plane at their home base at the right time.
@Matt yes, and the courts allow the same principle for other ‘extraordinary circumstances’ to apply to subsequent flights but reasonable measures that need to be taken might be greater at a home base than at an outstation.
“Might” be greater?! I’d be very surprised if those reasonable measures didn’t include having a spare plane and crew at their home base. They are free not to, but if they choose not to pay for that then they need to pay for the compensation that will become due.
Interestingly, I’m mid-CEDR claim with BA, and in their defence they’ve accepted rotational delay as their fault, although that’s a relatively small component. If your view was accepted they’d be able to write that off.
“Might” be greater?! I’d be very surprised if those reasonable measures didn’t include having a spare plane and crew at their home base. They are free not to, but if they choose not to pay for that then they need to pay for the compensation that will become due.
Interestingly, I’m mid-CEDR claim with BA, and in their defence they’ve accepted rotational delay as their fault, although that’s a relatively small component. If your view was accepted they’d be able to write that off.
@Matt ‘reasonable measures’ is a subjective issue. I don’t know what the circumstances of your claim are, as I don’t think it is on this thread, but the individual facts matter greatly. I wrote “might” re home base because again, BA isn’t expected to have row upon row of idle aircraft + crew immediately available in every single circumstance.
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