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Hi team,
Fairly new to this and just wanted to check I’m not way off with my calculations of Avios value here.
Have two companion vouchers and I’m using Avios to get Reward tickets (one way for now) to Rio for a family of four.
Cash price for tickets is £2427.
With companion vouchers included, the headline Avios cost is 70,000 + £400.
Per my calculations, that gives a per-Avios value of 2.89p, since (2427–400)/70,000 is 0.0289. (Obviously the companion voucher skews the value way higher than normal.)
I then looked at the other pay with Avios pricing options:
50,000 Avios + £600
39,000 Avios + £860
30,000 Avios + £1000
20,000 Avios + £1140
13,700 Avios + £1260Following my logic, each of those gives a better value Avios than the last. The final option, for example, works out at 8.5p per Avios, since (2427–1260)/13,700 = 0.085.
Is this correct? Is, therefore, the most economical thing to pick the final combination, all other things being equal? Or am I missing something?
Thanks!
Presumably this in in economy, using voucher from the free BA Amex? (If it’s the BAPP, you should really add in the annual fee to your calculations).
Those are all good prices for a family of 4 to Brazil. I’d decide how many avios and how much cash best suits your budget and avios balance and go with that.
You could also look at it as buying avios (e.g. with the last option) for 1.5p each (if my own calculations are correct), which isn’t a very good deal.
The value also increases when you factor in the flexible nature of award flights.
For reasons that I spent a long time getting my head around and which have been discussed elsewhere, it isn’t valid trying to compare ‘value per avios’ between the various options, basically because the cash & avios elements are changing in different proportions to each other. The net cost of each option is different, so you aren’t comparing like for like.
The sensible way to look at it is assign a value per avios, 1p being typical, and work out the cost for each option.
50K @ 1p + £600 = £1100
20K @ 1p + £1140 = £1340
etcThe least avios / most cash option is generally the most expensive combination when you look at it that way.
You could also look at it as buying avios (e.g. with the last option) for 1.5p each (if my own calculations are correct), which isn’t a very good deal.
Thanks for your reply. Could you explain this bit?
Agree with @AndrewT – take Avios @ 1ppA. Anything else doesn’t make sense as the cash element cancels out any Avios benefit. But very clever marketing 🙂
You’re paying £xxx instead of using more avios, so you’re effectively buying those extra avios from BA. Given you can get them for 0.9p via boosting, this is not the most economical option.
For reasons that I spent a long time getting my head around and which have been discussed elsewhere, it isn’t valid trying to compare ‘value per avios’ between the various options, basically because the cash & avios elements are changing in different proportions to each other. The net cost of each option is different, so you aren’t comparing like for like.
The sensible way to look at it is assign a value per avios, 1p being typical, and work out the cost for each option.
50K @ 1p + £600 = £1100
20K @ 1p + £1140 = £1340
etcThe least avios / most cash option is generally the most expensive combination when you look at it that way.
@AndrewT and @lhar there are lots of different ways to calculate this but I agree with this approach which also has the benefit of simplicity and I also don’t really buy the reverse calculation of the value of an Avios for the reasons you state. All too complicated, so I’m afraid I also do it on the back of a fag packet basis of the intuitive value of an Avios for our use. 20k Avios is worth more to me for a QF domestic business booking than some other uses, but everyone’s different. For European CE redemptions, the middle option with the (formerly) £50 return RFS option often seemed the best so I was a bit thrown by the options presented to me last week using a 1p valuation:-31,250 £25 £337.50
29,750 £33 £330.50
25,000 £49 £299.00
18,250 £74 £256.50
13,750 £114 £251.50
11,000 £154 £264.00I was surprised by the output, so asked one of my much cleverer fellow travellers to check my numbers and thinking. Whichever option, I was quite happy as the cash tickets, which I would have bought if necessary, were just over £500 with only two seats at that price on one of the flights so the additional seats might have cost more.
This may leave you cold, but, with some encouragement from HfP contributors I spent time and built up my own spreadsheet for avios, costs, value etc and some dummy spreadsheets for dropping in various options.
It means never having do the same calculation twice and I’ve got a very clear idea of the cost of my own Avios and the value I get from them.
I think theres potentially another problem here because @orion99 is looking at one way tickets.
Next May, a one way on BA LHR-GIG is about £600. A return is also about £600.
So the most miles, least money option round trip will be 100k and £1200 with 2 241’s. Using a value of 1p per mile, you are paying £2200 via that route, rather than £2400 if buying cash tickets. And that’s before you consider the cost of the vouchers. Unless you’re coming back on a cruise or something?
I totally missed that, no wonder the numbers look good!
I think theres potentially another problem here because @orion99 is looking at one way tickets.
Next May, a one way on BA LHR-GIG is about £600. A return is also about £600.
So the most miles, least money option round trip will be 100k and £1200 with 2 241’s. Using a value of 1p per mile, you are paying £2200 via that route, rather than £2400 if buying cash tickets. And that’s before you consider the cost of the vouchers. Unless you’re coming back on a cruise or something?
Was planning on getting the return when available and adding to the booking (and vouchers).
Would it be wiser to wait until returns are available and book with two 2-4-1s then? I was kind of assuming the returns would be the same Avios cost, but maybe I’m wrong…
This may leave you cold, but, with some encouragement from HfP contributors I spent time and built up my own spreadsheet for avios, costs, value etc and some dummy spreadsheets for dropping in various options.
It means never having do the same calculation twice and I’ve got a very clear idea of the cost of my own Avios and the value I get from them.
Is this publicly available? 🙂
I think theres potentially another problem here because @orion99 is looking at one way tickets.
Next May, a one way on BA LHR-GIG is about £600. A return is also about £600.
So the most miles, least money option round trip will be 100k and £1200 with 2 241’s. Using a value of 1p per mile, you are paying £2200 via that route, rather than £2400 if buying cash tickets. And that’s before you consider the cost of the vouchers. Unless you’re coming back on a cruise or something?
Just further to this…I assume that the cash price for a return would be significantly higher in summer holiday (UK) than in May. But is there a way to check this?
Obviously if the cash cost of four economy returns is £2400 then this is a very bad way to use the vouchers. But it’s over £2400 just for four one-way tickets and my working calculation was doubling that for a return.
@orion99, for long haul, most airlines charge considerably less for a return than for two singles, and sometimes a return is considerably cheaper than one single. That’s especially true if the return straddles a weekend. It’s their way of applying differential pricing to business travellers who want to be home with their family on a Saturday night.
Within Europe that doesn’t apply due to competition from low cost airlines.
BA is quoting £720 for a return to Rio in July/August next year, assuming obviously that you can get the cheapest seats. So it’s not that much of a premium over the May price. You can make a modest saving but by the time you cover the cost of the amex vouchers (assuming these were from the paid for card) you’re at break even. Long haul economy class bookings using Avios rarely make sense if you’re trying to get outsized value.
My methodology, get cash price for a return for roughly when I’m going, usually means the weeks before.
Then compare the avios spend plus taxes valuing as Rob says an Avios at 1p.
With a 241 Avios is very much cheaper for long haul business especially CapeTown, the gamble is getting return leg. Think avios is much less of a bargain for economy where you can be lucky to get good deals which beat Avios.
However must remember you already have paid for avios in past (either bought or collected) so even if a cash ticket would be in some circumstances less than Avios plus cash, you will have to lay out less hard cash with avios route. Cash flow may outweigh theoretical cost
BA is quoting £720 for a return to Rio in July/August next year, assuming obviously that you can get the cheapest seats. So it’s not that much of a premium over the May price. You can make a modest saving but by the time you cover the cost of the amex vouchers (assuming these were from the paid for card) you’re at break even. Long haul economy class bookings using Avios rarely make sense if you’re trying to get outsized value.
Good advice, cheers. Where are they quoting this?
I ask because that may include flights with connections, which we would want to avoid (young kids).
@orion99 Publicly available? 😱
I’ve shared loads of spreadsheets at work before and this one is functional but no way designed for others to easily use. I’d have to hang my head in shame for the lack of conditional formatting alone!
Seriously, if someone had shared theirs with me at the time it probably wouldn’t suit. Everyone has their own particular interest on what to track.
The original thread will show you the variety of things folks record.
I find Numbers on my iPhone remarkably flexible and easy. It’s great for all the various trends, calculations and urls from HFP.
https://www.headforpoints.com/forums/topic/should-i-resist-or-yield-to-urge-for-a-spreadsheet/
Ps Apologies, quote not working on my iPhone in portrait or landscape…
Presumably cash prices are available up to late July now?
Ps Apologies, quote not working on my iPhone in portrait or landscape…
Thanks you just sparked memory quote in Landscape, it works (unlike portrait
Sorry predictive text should read what I write
Should said ” me to try quote in Landscape “
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