Heathrow announces …. nothing much at all

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• kiran_mk2 says:

  12 Feb12 February 12:50

  Surprised there is no plan already in place for the terminal development. As far as I am aware, the plan was always to expand T2 over the T1 footprint and build T5D if needed – and the fact BA still can’t operate out of a single terminal suggest is is needed.

  I would think that BA would be heavily lobbying for T5D, as surely they would be able to run a more efficient system just having to manage operations in a single terminal (and presumably the bill from HFPers lounge-hopping in T3 would decrease!).

  Perhaps we will see BA, Iberia & Aer Lingus all operating out of T5 one day…

  • kiran_mk2 says:

    12 Feb12 February 12:51

    Also noticed, that the illustrative 3rd runway picture used in the article already has T2 & T5 fully “toast racked.”

• will says:

  12 Feb12 February 12:51

  I think any planning approval should be conditional on an efficient airside connection between terminals.

  The airport is a joke to traverse.

  • BlairWaldorfSalad says:

    12 Feb12 February 13:32

    +1

    • NorskSaint says:

      12 Feb12 February 17:13

      +1
      Although not sure there is any good example of the major airports in Europe these days. CDG is a disaster, FRA no better, and can never get on with AMS. Getting rid of those dreadful buses to connect should be a priority.

  • Barrel for Scraping says:

    12 Feb12 February 13:41

    What’s crazy is the current (as of 2019) plans, see link in my post below don’t have a connection between the T2 complex (which covers T2A-D). The T2 complex will get its own transit. T5X will get a transit but none will be linked to the existing one.

    I’ve seen them linked up in older plans so it’s possible that will be revived when the plans are updated but the plans as currently published look a mess.

• George K says:

  12 Feb12 February 12:55

  I was part of the T2A/T2B testing when they were looking for volunteers to run scripted passenger drills ahead of the terminal gradually opening in 2014. That was 11 years ago, and I distinctively remember the much-promoted plans for a T2C – and a T5D – being discussed at the time.

  In terms of connections, I wish the unused underground rail station at T5 would finally be taken out of its mothballs to get the heathrow southern railway project going.

  https://heathrowrail.com/proposed-route/

  • Ironside says:

    12 Feb12 February 13:26

    Yes, absolutely. The lack of a decent westerly rail connection is absurd.

    (I mean, the sensible thing would have been for a HS2 link, too. But being sensible just isn’t British!)

    • Will says:

      12 Feb12 February 17:04

      The lack of planing on things like this that is contributing massively to our productivity issues in the UK.

      I live in a 100k person town and it regularly takes me 15 minutes to drive 1.2 miles to my daughters primary school because no ring road has been build and a housing zone has essentially turned into a ring road (I drive straight to work from school before some sensible soul suggests I walk instead)

    • Andy says:

      13 Feb13 February 17:50

      Believe the Western Tail link plans have been scrapped – Network Rail have withdrawn the planning application

  • PW says:

    13 Feb13 February 09:46

    And the proposed link from the Great Western main line as well to enable trains from Bristol, South Wales and the West Country to call at Heathrow en route to Paddington.

    • Clive says:

      13 Feb13 February 11:54

      In fact the proposed link from the Great Western Mainline wouldn’t divert fast trains, but would be a spur into T5, which would be a terminus for trains from Reading. But that would still be better than the coach link or going into Paddington and coming out again. As the fast trains will all have to stop at Old Oak Common, another stop at Heathrow would make them even less competitive in time.

      • Andy says:

        13 Feb13 February 17:54

        The infrastructure plan is to allow through trains

        “ It would then descend underneath the main railway line into a cutting before entering a 5km tunnel. The tunnel would pass under Richings Park and Colnbrook and then merge with existing rail lines underground at Heathrow Terminal 5.”

        https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/western/western-rail-link-to-heathrow/

• Barrel for Scraping says:

  12 Feb12 February 13:12

  “There is also a Terminal 5D plan as you can see from the photo above”

  Actually there isn’t! There’s a gap where T5D would be. Oddly what you see in that drawing is T2D. The plan looks a bit of a mess, but the latest one published in 2019 (and where that image comes from) has T2 expanded, T2C located where you’d expect (after T2B) and T2D located on space where T3 is currently.

  https://www.heathrow.com/content/dam/heathrow/web/common/documents/company/about/expansion/Heathrow-Expansion-Consultation-June-2019.pdf

  It’s on page 19 of this document (above). For some reason plans for a T5D haven’t been in Heathrow’s plans for quite a while.

  • sigma421 says:

    12 Feb12 February 13:30

    Presumably they could set up T5D/T2D to serve both T5 and T2 if they needed to better balance demand.

• Harry says:

  12 Feb12 February 13:20

  To me this announcement is basically telling us:
  1. Work on the terminals will start before third runway.
  2. Shareholders have agreed on some sort of investment plan.
  3. The airport has lost the goodwill of the airlines and realises that investing in terminals is the way to get their support for a third runway.

  Obviously T2 should’ve been finished a while ago and T3 demolished but things don’t always turn out like we would wish and shareholders have to be satisfied. With the terminals needing some sort of design work and planning permission (unless this was already granted), surely this will take a few years before construction can start though.

  • Barrel for Scraping says:

    12 Feb12 February 14:03

    They also need to get a move on before the backstabbers in the Labour Party kick out the current leader and the replacement leader is not pro-expansion. With record low approval ratings I’m sure Labour will want a new leader in place well before the election and as we know from the previous government a change of leader affects the expansion plans of Heathrow

    • CJD says:

      12 Feb12 February 15:10

      Getting rid of one of only two leaders who’s actually won an election in 50 years would be stupid, even for Labour.

• JDB says:

  12 Feb12 February 14:21

  I’m not sure why anyone might expect the T2 expansion to be “shovel ready”. The building work can’t begin until the BRF is completed and the new T2 baggage system is installed which then allows the existing T2 baggage system which lives in T1 to be removed. That last part is extremely complex.

  Thereafter, T1 can be demolished and the proper work on extending T2 can start. It’s highly sub-optimal, but the airlines baulked at the cost of putting the baggage system in with the T2 build so now it will cost far more and take much longer to retrofit.

  • Simon says:

    12 Feb12 February 14:34

    What’s the timeline for the T2 baggage system to be ready? I can find a press release saying they had appointed someone to do the design work. But appreciate we then have build, commission, migration…

    • JDB says:

      12 Feb12 February 14:57

      Probably 2028. The move out of T3 was pencilled in for 2035 but that’s probably a bit optimistic.

    • JDB says:

      12 Feb12 February 15:04

      @Simon – yes the announcement last year reported here was simply that Beumer had won the tender so a long way off getting all the necessary final approvals for work to begin. There’s also a severe shortage of the necessary skilled workers and not just in the UK. The specialist supply chain, like aviation has issues.

      Some seem to think it’s like buying a new telly and plugging it in… so what’s the delay.

  • BBbetter says:

    12 Feb12 February 14:40

    Rob is being pessimistic. No one is expecting precise numbers just days after government support. They have made the intentions clear and need to use this opportunity to raise funds in a favourable environment. They are also putting pressure on government indirectly to clear the hurdles before they can commit to the third runway.

• JDB says:

  12 Feb12 February 14:26

  The article headline notwithstanding, the projects in supposed non announcement will cost upwards of £10bn.

• Nick says:

  12 Feb12 February 14:44

  T5D as an actual building is incredibly difficult (read: expensive) because it involves safely demolishing enormous fuel tanks and building alternative storage elsewhere. It was always planned but gets pushed back every time. They’re still scarred by the huge fire which means they can’t rely more on continuous pumping.

  However, a workable, ‘shovel-ready’ plan has been around for years now for a ‘T5D’ without a building, in other words upgrading the existing remote stands and improving coaching infrastructure. I haven’t seen any more detail on today’s announcement than is public, but knowing HAL I’d be astonished if it were anything but this. The upgrade is around B44-45 so it can be used more alongside A10.

  • Barrel for Scraping says:

    12 Feb12 February 16:40

    That would be a nightmare having to trek to the B gates just to get a bus. I know it can happen now but it’s quite rare

    • Phillip says:

      12 Feb12 February 17:22

      From memory, when I’ve been taken by bus to a remote stand at the satellite gates, it was always from an A gate.

    • Dubious says:

      13 Feb13 February 05:31

      Sounds like Beijing Capital (the old one).
      Walked halfway down one side of the terminal building just to get on a bus that drove all the way back to a place underneath where I had been sat inside the terminal…to then U-turn and drive all the way back down again and further (because boarding the bus from the terminal could only be done on one side of the bus).

  • Expat in SJC says:

    12 Feb12 February 23:47

    They did something similar at LAX (right down by the threshold of 6R)- it’s where Norse and others get sent. Essentially a bus stop with a jetbridge attached.

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