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Virgin Atlantic: ‘We scrapped the 12 guaranteed reward seats due to member feedback’

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There is a phrase in the PR world – ‘when you’re apologising, you’re losing’.

You are more likely to know ‘when you’re in a hole, stop digging’.

These were the thoughts that sprang to mind when I read the four page A4 PDF document sent to members of the Virgin Atlantic invite-only ‘Travel Talk’ forum in defence of the changes to Virgin Flying Club.

It’s fair to say that if you thought that HfP readers were scathing about the changes, it was nothing compared to ‘Travel Talk’ members. That’s not surprising, of course, since only highly engaged members would bother to join an invite-only discussion group.

It’s unfair to post the entire document because it was meant for an invite-only audience, but I’ve repeated a few sections below. As you read it, remember that this document was written for some of the most knowledgeable and highest value customers of the airline.

Let’s start with the one I put in the headline of the article. Apparently it was YOU, the loyal Flying Club member, who wanted the removal of the 12 guaranteed reward seats per flight.

Before we go on, a quick note on editing. Some answers have been shortened – these are indicated with ‘[….]’ – but each sentence appears exactly as it is in the original. Any bolding is ours.

On the removal of the 12 guaranteed reward seats per flight:

Why have you eliminated the Reward/Saver seat minimum across all cabins and flights?

We listened to member feedback and while the minimum 12 seat guarantee was valued, the high demand for those seats showed us that we needed more flexibility. We considered including a guaranteed number of seats in the new Saver product, but feedback showed that booking 11 months in advance to secure one was unfair and impractical for many members. Instead, we’ve reinvested that value into better pricing for all. This way, you can use your points anytime.

On devaluation:

Why have points been devalued, and why weren’t existing customer balances adjusted accordingly?

Virgin Points have not been devalued; in fact, we’re adding more value for members. Higher price points reflect access to newly available more valuable inventory, while the introduction of Saver reward seats offers our lowest ever prices. Combine that with increased points earn rates in Premium and Upper Class, and Virgin Points can now take you even further.

On credit card vouchers:

Why are companion vouchers now capped in value and tier-based?

We’ve simplified our vouchers to make them more flexible – you can now use them for a cabin upgrade or to bring a companion. The capped value ensures that the voucher is at least as valuable as previously, with the added benefit of being usable on any seat. [….]

On what people who don’t earn huge volumes of points are now meant to do:

What steps will be taken to make the program more achievable for regular and low-tier customers?

We want Flying Club to work for all members. [….] Whether you’re a frequent flyer or someone saving for a special trip, there are now more ways to get the most out of the programme.

On the background to the changes:

Why were these changes made and what are the core benefits of the new system to the customer?

Very simply in order to make Flying Club more rewarding and easier to use for everyone! [….]

On those who say they may switch:

I don’t feel valued, why should I stay loyal to Flying Club rather than switch to a competitor programme?

Flying Club offers the most rewarding travel programme and our unique benefits set us apart from our competitors. [….] Combined with our excellent onboard service and people and outstanding products, Flying Club truly delivers exceptional value. [….]

We understand that changes to programmes can take time to adjust to, and some members may explore alternatives. However, we’re confident that our programme offers great value. We hope you’ll take a closer look at all we offer and feel reassured of the benefits of staying with Flying Club and Virgin Atlantic.

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Category

Virgin Atlantic and Flying Club

Comments (245)

This article is closed to new comments. Feel free to ask your question in the HfP forums.

  • ChasP says:
    10 Dec10 December 13:51

    We can moan all we like and it won’t make any difference or at most be a footnote to a report showing how many £££s they have saved
    What might (note MIGHT) would be HfP (and other sites) revaluing Virgin points at 0.7p while Avios stays at 1p

    • Rob says:
      10 Dec10 December 14:17

      Problem is that they are arguably worth MORE than before on Saver flights, its just that you won’t find them on most leisure routes in Upper.

      • ChasP says:
        10 Dec10 December 14:40

        But they have always been worth a range; I have had 2.9p a couple of years ago to LAX or 1.1p to MCO both in UC Probably less in economy.
        A very few cheap flights doesnt move the average much as noted earlier I counted 6 flights to SFO/LAX at the lower charge rate out of 1500 !

      • Petra says:
        10 Dec10 December 16:01

        Then either something must be wrong with your valuation methodology or with the majority of comments.

      • Bill Barton says:
        10 Dec10 December 16:08

        There a lot of saver flights that costs significantly more. So it’s not just a question of finding a saver flight, but finding a “unicorn” saver flight.

        • Rob says:
          10 Dec10 December 16:17

          No, Saver flights do not cost more than reward seats cost under the old structure. That is literally their definition of ‘Saver flight’. It’s just an error on the Virgin website if they are flagged as such.

          • ChasP says:
            10 Dec10 December 18:59

            Possibly true if BOTH flights are saver but on most routes that is virtually impossible to achieve – even if you have a lot of flexibility. I looked daily for 1 seat UC to LHR to SFO or LAX anytime in October next year for 10-21 days – thats pretty flexible and off peak There were NO outbound UC savers released but plenty inbound; there are still inbound savers available on 6 days
            Best I could get was LHR-SFO LHR- SFO 98k and the unicorn saver 13 days later @ 41k – which gave me £870 charges rather than £1040. There was one other set of dates available giving a similar result

          • Bill Barton says:
            10 Dec10 December 20:09

            Well both the website and the Reward Seat Checker is wrong then.

      • HampshireHog says:
        10 Dec10 December 18:11

        Not true Rob, an average valuation must surely suggest 0.5p per point

        • Rob says:
          10 Dec10 December 19:43

          Plenty of us would buy all you have to sell at 0.5p, so that’s clearly too low.

      • John says:
        10 Dec10 December 18:28

        Just because you can sometimes get 2p per avios doesn’t mean you should routinely buy them at 2p

    • ken says:
      10 Dec10 December 14:30

      I doubt this will happen.

      1p is nice and understandable.

      The range of value has widened. Some people will get more value, more people will get (substantially) less.

      It’s not in many sites interest to say – “this program sucks – avoid”

      Could anyone objectively say that for the majority virgin miles have the same value as Avios, or the voucher has equal value.

      • davefl says:
        10 Dec10 December 16:00

        Yes they had massively more value than BA for those of travelling from within reach of manchester. The MAN-LHR-XXX experience is appalling. Much better to go MAN-JFK or MAN-ATL when travelling west.

        Virgin’s cancellation of the promised lounge at MAN was the last straw for me, not this devaluation as we were paying the same but getting less for our money, especially when flying back from ATL but the trashing of the programme was one over the edge. I’ll likely never fly Virgin again. (Was Gold this year as well…)

      • Rob says:
        10 Dec10 December 16:10

        I think this is the fairest way to look at it. The range has widened vs where it was.

        In theory, if you have a credit card voucher then two of you can fly Upper to NYC in January for 58k + £1350. You’re into 3p per point territory there. The bottom line remains 0.5p per point because you can cash out for loads of things via Virgin Red at that level.

        Partner rewards in premium cabins are reliably good for 1p per point and Air France KLM can get you to most places.

        • HampshireHog says:
          10 Dec10 December 18:13

          While the partner redemptions last

        • Throwawayname says:
          10 Dec10 December 19:54

          I know that a fair few people are willing to part with a couple of grand in order to fly upfront on two segments which involve no connections and are too short for a proper night’s sleep, but to me it’s still not really amazing value. It’s almost always better to redeem those VS miles on AFKL or other partners.

    • Mark says:
      10 Dec10 December 15:48

      It’s better in any case for individuals to take their own view, based on their own preferences and points usage. I place a nominal value of 1p on Avios, in that I will never pay more then that and I always judge the cost of a redemption based on 1p. I always valued Virgin points at 0.5p because of the high charges, old UC seating and limited route network which meant we always found it harder to use them, even before the latest changes.

  • Paul says:
    10 Dec10 December 14:13

    My favourite lines were
    ”
    We understand that changes to programmes can take time to adjust to, and some members may explore alternatives. However, we’re confident that our programme offers great value. We hope you’ll take a closer look at all we offer and feel reassured of the benefits of staying with Flying Club and Virgin Atlantic”

    If that wasn’t a @+*! off I don’t know what is.

    As I have said before, I have never flows VS and won’t be now, though I did like their London lounge and the upper class drive in area in T3.

  • JohnF says:
    10 Dec10 December 14:58

    I can see the customer benefit in the change. However, I think two things that annoys and upsets everyone is the outrageous number of points needed for a lot of flights and this being applied in “school holiday” time. I feel very sorry for those people who have been saving points to get rewards seats when taking family on holiday when off school.

  • Rachel says:
    10 Dec10 December 15:57

    All signs the Atlantic is now a triopoly.
    Same prices, clear indirect collusion on capacity (withdrawing tit for tat – using delivery delays as the cover), and giving up on FFPs.
    So if price is the same, there’s no FFP benefit worth bothering with, I’d buy on quality and best schedule for the trip.
    That’s most definitely not Virgin.
    Based on recent experience it’s either JetBlue to JFK )their schedule is niche though), or American (avoiding BA metal and its newly dreadful food offer). I’d avoid AA domestic US though, with Delta the best of a bad bunch there.
    Anything going east is Emirates or Ethihad and Singapore Air for Asia. Ethiopian for Africa.

  • Spaghetti Town says:
    10 Dec10 December 16:38

    I see a comment above about BA potentially moving to dynamic pricing.

    The time is coming where we’ll all just end up in economy unless you have massive amounts of avios to burn by virtue of being a FF or can pump huge volume through an SME card.

    Why bother with the hassle of collecting points and hitting CC spending targets when you can’t spend the things. I’ll just pay for an exit row leg room seat in Y and be done with it.

  • Mart says:
    10 Dec10 December 16:45

    The main thing here is if Joe bloggs doesn’t think he can achieve what’s required he will go elsewhere

    • Mikeact says:
      10 Dec10 December 18:20

      That’s my neighbour, shopping at Sainsbury’s for a trip to somewhere with her husband. Better tell her not to raise her hopes.

  • Daisy says:
    10 Dec10 December 17:37

    I will be cancelling my credit card, it’s no good now for a low point collector, who’s red far too expensive in school hols. At least with BA, I can get seats in Biz using a 2 for one and have far more choice of destinations. With Virgin from Man it’s hopeless now.

  • Peter K says:
    10 Dec10 December 17:56

    Seems like Virgin have made a decision and will argue black is white in justifying it.

    The customer is low on their priorities list. Money and the bottom line and buying extra time before they go under is the way of travel it seems.

    • Stuart says:
      11 Dec11 December 05:43

      Yes. I’m burning and done.

      • Lady London says:
        11 Dec11 December 12:57

        As is VS, apparently. If they didn’t know this then this wouldn’t be their strategy.

        Getting their PR to keep digging when they’re already waist-deep in a hole by putting out tjis kind of rubbish statement, has only taken them further down in the hole.

        For the staff, I am comforted by the long glide path we seem to hsve been seeing progress, towards V being absorbed into Delta.

        For V management, managing decline is never easy snd they are probably just doing their best.

This article is closed to new comments. Feel free to ask your question in the HfP forums.

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