Virgin Atlantic abandons plan for Government bailout, has five weeks to find a buyer (Telegraph)

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• Jack says:

  26 Apr26 April 12:50

  wow it’s like a competition to see how people many can post the same thing but just worded differently

  Ps : Rob, what are you going to do with your miles?

  • J says:

    26 Apr26 April 14:00

    Surely we should all be more interested in when Rob is buying IAG shares!

    • Spaghetti town says:

      26 Apr26 April 15:45

      Is rob buying Iag Shares then?

• Opus says:

  26 Apr26 April 12:59

  I for one are of the idea that the UK government would’ve given VS this loan if they wanted to and that’s just facts. They keep giving them excuses when they come back. Think about it. They’re the ones that came and ask for 7.5 Bill for the industry they said no…they came back AGAIN they sent them back saying they were not impressed with their bid and they need to try harder to raise funds. If the government really wanted to give them that money they would’ve given it to them. Didn’t they bail out Flybe the first time and then refused to publish the terms of the bailout because even though it doesn’t make sense if the government wants to bail you out it will even if your request is not that strong. That’s the way I see it at least. The government is not telling them no but it’s not telling them yes I think they just want to drag it out till they actually fall under. How can the government send you back into the market knowing IN THIS CLIMATE who the hell is looking to purchase an airline. I mean obviously no other airline but of course distressed security hedge funds are swooping in.

  That’s just the way I see it

  • marcw says:

    26 Apr26 April 13:06

    I agree. If the the Gov was willing to give them the money, they would have done so already. Also, it’s interesting how confusing all this has become, especially from the Virgin side. First, talks with Gov are being constructive,,, the next they the Gov sends Virgin home and to reconsider their bid. Then SRB writes something that without Gov help, the company will fold. Now they are looking for non-public money.

    Virgin Atlantics business plan is outdated. You can’t be a little boutique airline in the XXI century, It just doesn’t work anymore.

    • Opus says:

      26 Apr26 April 13:29

      I absolutely agree with you! That’s the same point I raised on another forum. It’s been confusing and I think they just have a a script they’re working with. I think they’ve been advised that the government route is really not going to work. But to keep the morale alive they have to say positive things

    • Mikeact says:

      26 Apr26 April 14:32

      Quite right and with pretty ropey management it seems to me. Each year, ‘carry on as normal…. don’t worry about any losses….we’ll be OK.’ Perhaps it came from the top ?

  • Sean says:

    26 Apr26 April 13:47

    What you’re missing here is that private equity will come in and say yep we’ll inject £500m at high interest rates as required but the current shareholders will see current shareholdings diluted to below 1%. Virgin will then accept a Gov’t offer of say 90% convertible shareholding for a cheaper £500m loan. If PE are not prepared to wipe out existing shareholders then I’m damn sure the govt shouldn’t either.

    • Opus says:

      26 Apr26 April 13:55

      Isn’t this assuming there’s a government offer to accept in the first place?

  • Lady London says:

    27 Apr27 April 10:21

    It’s a dance. Let’s, sincerely, hope the UK government doesn’t fall for it.

    • Rob says:

      27 Apr27 April 10:31

      You do know the UK Goverment has just bailed out a Hungarian airline for £300m using taxpayers money?!

      • Lady London says:

        27 Apr27 April 12:12

        Tell us more?
        Was that airline viable? Did we get equity?

        • Rhys says:

          27 Apr27 April 12:22

          Article tomorrow

• Baji Nahid says:

  26 Apr26 April 13:35

  Ah damn! There goes my £126 return to NYC out the window 🙁

• Craig W says:

  26 Apr26 April 14:19

  Holy crap what are lansdowne thinking….

  They had a massive airline position going into this crisis, it has blown up and now they are doubling down. I am expect institutional investors are going to be heading for the doors pronto…

  • Novice says:

    26 Apr26 April 14:34

    You’d be amazed how many investors get stuff wrong eg. Woodword😒

    It’s easy to play with other people’s money I guess…

    • Craig W says:

      26 Apr26 April 14:48

      Agreed. Sophisticated investors should be pulling money from lansdowne though this is nuts. Suddenly interested to “go” to work tomorrow now – this isn’t going to go down well

  • Lady London says:

    26 Apr26 April 15:28

    Depends how deep their pockets are and how long they’ve got to wait it out.

    For instanc if I was a family office – where you’re constantly investing for the generations – I would now be seriously picking over property particularly some that are held on n property funds whose trading is suspended because of property issues and the liquidity crash. But that would because I would be able to consider s 20-30 year window.

    • Craig W says:

      26 Apr26 April 16:29

      Is a good point re property and if you can get out and assess properties (a lot of investment managers are saying they can’t) then you should be able to pick up some bargains. Funds suspended though because there is no price discovery precisely because they can’t transact the underlying property in these conditions. Interesting times.

      With lansdowne my concern is more around risk management and diversification, both of which seems insufficient given a potential double down on airlines.

      • Rts says:

        26 Apr26 April 19:39

        Property funds are suspended due to the valuers implementing a valuation uncertainty clause – meaning they are basically putting a finger in the air when valuing the respective Funds assets therefore there is a question mark over property funds NAV.

        • Craig W says:

          26 Apr26 April 20:53

          Agreed? And why is there uncertainty… because no one can transact don’t there is no price discovery which was the only point I was making

        • Lady London says:

          27 Apr27 April 10:06

          basically liquidity went which is always a risk with property but this time part (not all) of the cause is systemic. So you can say there is no liquidity so there is no trading so you could claim values can’t be assessed correctly in such an environment or you can say funds have been suspended because of a run on them exposing insolvency.

• Max says:

  26 Apr26 April 14:51

  I flew Virgin Atlantic to Hong Kong. The experience really wasn’t that great, I don’t understand why they have a reputation for providing a superior service. Cathay Pacific were much better.

  • J says:

    26 Apr26 April 21:36

    Comparing Asian and European airlines is a pointless exercise. In terms of service and product a typical 4/5* hotel in most Asian countries will generally be far superior to what you get in Europe/North America. Airlines are no different.

    Over the years I’ve flew Cathay Pacific, Singapore Airlines, ANA, JAL, Korean Air, Thai and China Southern – apart from the latter, I’d choose any of the Asian carriers over Virgin or any other European carriers. I would still pick Virgin though every time over BA, Air France, Lufthansa etc.

• AirlineInsider92 says:

  26 Apr26 April 15:05

  In essence if VS hadn’t focussed so much on BA and transatlantic revenue from LHR, they would be in a much better financial position today than they currently stand. The Flybe debacle to compete on domestic routes would never of worked from a slot controlled Heathrow, similar to the failure of Virgin red years previously. The only way the airline will survive is to switch all routes to Gatwick, partner with U2 for European and domestic flights and sell the Heathrow slots. Whilst this may seem mad, there most profitable flights have been there Orlando, Vegas and Carribbean flights which until recently have all been Gatwick departures. This would create two mega hubs in Britain and would ensure success for both. DI will collapse so they won’t be any competition out of LGW on the transatlantic routes or profitable South American routes. As far as fleet goes for what I would call ‘EasyVirgin’ or similar, ditch the 787s and accelate retirement of the 747, become a Airbus only carrier for both shorthaul and long haul.

  • Spaghetti Town says:

    26 Apr26 April 15:42

    Ahh so go down to Gatwick and compete with Norwegian for less Premium passengers?

    • AirlineInsider92 says:

      26 Apr26 April 17:59

      Firstly Norwegian won’t survive, to High of a debt and no real equity to loan against, they will not be a long haul factor at Gatwick. Even when competing in the past they weren’t a true premium airline, yes they had one of the better premium economy offerings pre 2019, but that was it, they had no real J offering. If you think LGW isnt as premium as LHR then just look at the success of EK,CI,QR,CX who have all launched long haul flights from LGW in recent years and have seen great J class load factors. Secondly of the large airline groups in Europe, not one of them offers a true J class experience when travelling intra Europe or domestically, they all have blocked middle seats which may become the norm anyhow and wouldn’t be to hard to adjust, so this wouldn’t be a stumbling block. This could be a very easy way for VS to survive, expand and finally grab the intra European and domestic flights it needs to survive without costly partnerships.

  • Novice says:

    26 Apr26 April 15:59

    Actually I personally think instead of Gatwick they should have tried MAN. If they had offered flights to Africa,Asia, S America and US from there they would have been better off.

    Ppl in the north of England and Wales and maybe even south Scotland use Manchester but I have never seen the desire from any UK airline to establish a proper hub in MAN.

    London is treated as if it’s a different country.

    A lot of people are having to hop over to Europe to take flights longhaul because they can’t be bothered with London since it doesn’t make much difference going AMS.

    • Charlieface says:

      26 Apr26 April 18:28

      Something I’ve said many a time on this very forum

  • Mikeact says:

    26 Apr26 April 16:04

    There you go, the three most ‘profitable’ destinations, all tourist hot spots….doesn’t say much for their other routes.

• Brian says:

  26 Apr26 April 15:58

  Would like to ask for some geniune advice:

  I am looking to redeem a VA UC return flight to Hong Kong for early 2021 anyway (been saving up miles for it for a while tbh) and this will empty my FC balance.

  Will it be risky that VA not honoring the ticket?

  I am not ready to take such a hit on trasnferring to HH or IHG since I don’t use hotel redemption that often anyway

  • Lady London says:

    26 Apr26 April 16:46

    IME you are better redeeming for your ticket asap for a date you’re prepared to fly on. If the flight no longer exists by then or if your ticket becomes invalid because VS is no longer there to pay the airline you fly on then at that time you would do s75 on the paying credit card for whatever it costs to replace your ticket to with same.

    Whereas if you haven’t used them then the value of miles you hold might or might not reduce to almost nothing.

    Sonu would crystallise them into a flight as soon as I could.

    • Dan says:

      27 Apr27 April 14:53

      I’ve just read 300 comments and this is the advice I was looking for. Thank you!

      • Rob says:

        27 Apr27 April 14:56

        No it isn’t. There is NO EVIDENCE, EVER of a credit card company replacing an air miles ticket from a defunct programme with a fully flexible business class ticket on the same route (which is what a comparative product would be). Not when Air Berlin failed, not when Jet Airways failed.

        If you took the card company to court they might settle at the last minute to avoid an expensive judgement which would impact all future claims but the idea that – for example – Amex is going to buy my family 4 x full flex Business Class tickets to San Francisco for £20,000 next year if Virgin goes down is fanciful.

        I’m not saying don’t do it, because arguably it is worth a try, but don’t be fooled into thinking it is an answer.

        • Dan says:

          27 Apr27 April 16:10

          Oh dear… I’ve just booked Miami for early January. If the YQ gets refunded I should be able to afford economy! If credit card company won’t replace tickets, maybe travel insurance would?

• Mikeact says:

  26 Apr26 April 15:59

  Remember this ?
  2 Years Ago Virgin America Operated Its Final Flight on April 24th, 2018.

  • TGLoyalty says:

    26 Apr26 April 16:54

    I hope Alaska still plans on joining Oneworld after all this

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