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A BA check-in agent writes about how they select passengers for downgrading and offloading

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Regular readers of Head for Points will know that there has been substantial discussion on the site in recent weeks about downgrades.  In particular, the issue is whether British Airways is prioritising Avios tickets, and 241 tickets in particular, because it does not have to pay the legally required EU261 compensation in cash, if at all.

Unfortunately for BA, a regular contributor to HfP was recently downgraded on a 241 ticket.  This means that we will be following his claim for full compensation in real time.

British Airways BA 777X 777 9X

To put the other side of the story, I asked a British Airways check-in agent if they could tell me how the downgrade and offloading system is meant to work.  This is what they said – I have edited the comments to remove any identifying details:

We will be told which flights are oversold at our briefing when we start work that day. Depending on how oversold it is a nominee may be appointed to approach all customers for that destination before they get to the desk, ie. when they enter the queue.   They are given details of the compensation offered by us on the day and the alternative flight we can offer them, together with any info on hotels and transportation to those hotels.  Sometimes we have to re-route via another airport so will send them to overnight up there in readiness.

If the flight is just one or two oversold we will be asked to approach customers as they check in or drop bags. The information of the offer is shown in the header page for that flight together with ‘bail out’ options (as we call it). In fairness some of the newer staff can be scared of asking as any hint of overbooking may worry a customer so being new some of them tend not to ask.

If someone volunteers to come off for cash they are told that they will still travel on the flight if space is available at closure. They will then be on-loaded at that time but in whatever seat is left. So sometimes not the best of options.

If we have no volunteers and all seats have been assigned then the last person to present themselves at check in will be told that unfortunately at this time there is no seat for them and they will be asked to return at flight closure. It’s only at that time will we know if they can get on or not.  If they don’t get on we deal with the initial conversations (never a nice thing to do) and advise the compensation they will receive, etc. A manager will come down and issue the cash card, and we issue vouchers for hotel, meals, etc.

Downgrades can, and do, happen to anyone. Generally those safe will be those who are Gold, Silver or OW equivalent, or those who’ve paid for seats.

These [paid] seats are always held until flight closure and only released if a customer doesn’t arrive in that time. Some of those non status holders will pay to reserve seats as its perhaps a trip of a lifetime to them so they want to be sure of being together. I’ve seen Golds downgraded over others without status because they haven’t held their seat whereas all others have (yes, not often but it can happen). That’s why I always recommend people check in online as soon as they can, even if they can’t print the boarding pass.

If there is possibility of downgrade passengers will still go to the lounge and be told there. If the flight is oversold they will be kept landside.  If we’re expecting downgrades, seats are held in the next cabin down – usually the bulkhead in WT+.

In the situation of an aircraft change, this will generally not affect premium travellers adversely [….]  All would get seats still, though some maybe not the one they wanted.  We struggle more with offloads on these occasions as there are not so many World Traveller seats for downgraded passengers.  Again we deal with that as a voluntary thing seeking volunteers. Again any offloads would be the last ones to check in again, ie. sequence number.

I’ve had a situation at the gate where we had to remove 8 people from the flight because of weather (winds) not allowing enough fuel and all the passengers to travel. We had to ask for volunteers at the gate and we easily got enough. Had we not got enough the manager with me confirmed it would have been last to check in.

So all in all I do think this panic [over Avios passengers being targetted for downgrades] is unfortunate.  Of course things can and do happen but I find it sad that you’re taking one incident and making it seem like it’s happening all the time. From my first hand experience that is not the case at all.

They key thing is if it were, why do we take so much time actively seeking volunteers if we already know who is going to be downgraded?

Thanks for this, I think all of the readers appreciate it.  I would note, however:

Note the comment above about what happens to those who volunteer not to travel.  If it turns out that a seat is available at departure for any reason, your compensation will be rescinded and you will be made to fly in that seat, wherever on the plane it is.

Both of the cases I am currently looking at involved customers who were specifically told by Duty Managers that they had been downgraded because they were on Avios tickets.

When my family was downgraded from Club World three years ago, both myself and my wife were Silver so there was no protection for us as status holders.  The other case I am currently chasing on behalf of a HfP reader was where the reader had paid for seat selection but was on an Avios ticket and was still downgraded, so that is also not a guarantee of safety.

The idea that volunteers are initially sought at check-in is totally at odds with what happened to our contributor.  He was blocked from online check-in and told at Edinburgh that he was being downgraded.  The check-in desks for his flight at Gatwick had not even opened at this point so there clearly had been no attempt to seek volunteers.

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Comments (137)

This article is closed to new comments. Feel free to ask your question in the HfP forums.

  • BruceN says:
    16 Mar16 March 07:56

    “If someone volunteers to come off for cash they are told that they will still travel on the flight if space is available at closure. They will then be on-loaded at that time but in whatever seat is left. So sometimes not the best of options”

    This recently happened to my uncle. He had to wait by the check in desks, happy to get the cash they had offered and be bumped to the next flight, only to be told there was room after all. So he spent a couple of hours sitting on an uncomfortable seat and missed out on visiting the lounge, for nothing…

  • Robbie says:
    16 Mar16 March 08:01

    Ok, I am not sure I fully understand what my rights are on this.

    If I am downgraded do I have to accept it? or can I request another flight in the class I booked? I ask because in my upcoming trip I have booked the flight specifically because my wife wants to travel in Business and never has. Obviously if we are downgraded to Premium economy it will completely invalidate the reason we were travelling in the first place so we would rather wait for the next flight (There are two more that day) and guarentee a Business Seat but if they say we are in Premium Economy it will remove the reason we are going in the first place regardless of any compensation (Which as I understand it will just be some of the Avios back??)

    Also, how common is it? It is not something I have ever worried about before (But then I have always flown economy so not much to lose) but now I am starting to worry about it as I booked on Avios – but this is quite rare right?

    • Robbie says:
      16 Mar16 March 08:06

      I wasn’t going to pay for seat selection as I think that paying to select seats especially in Business Class is rediculous but now I am thinking it may be a good idea? If I pay for seats and still get downgraded will I get that money back?

      • Neil says:
        16 Mar16 March 08:20

        I was wondering the same – if coughing up the extortionate fee to pay for business class seat selection well before OLCI will guarantee your seat because you have already selected and paid for it then perhaps it’s worth it.

        • James A says:
          16 Mar16 March 08:32

          Yes you’ll get the seat cost refunded when you complain.

          • Robbie says:
            16 Mar16 March 09:08

            Ok, Guess I will hold my nose and buy the seat then.

            As I am connecting through Heathrow does anyone know if it will work if I only buy one part? So if I only buy a seat for the Long Haul (As that is the one I am most worried about being downgraded on.) or would I need to buy for the short haul into LHR as well?

    • Polly says:
      16 Mar16 March 08:27

      Robbie, nobody actually knows how often it’s happening to 241s in J. But it appears that from Anons experience they, as a 241 couple were targeted. They were told this! Many 1000s of us have not been downgraded, who is to say who and when we will be chosen when flying on a 241. Years ago we were just told at bag drop that both of us couldn’t travel in J, cash tickets that time, and one of us had to be in WTP. But l asked for a manager, stood my ground, told them it was a recovery trip in Nov to Dubai, after both our fathers dying that summer. I was literally in tears, but we managed to get our seats. So l think it’s FLY that’s over ruling ground staff ATM.

      Anon, l thought you said you had status in the big discussion article last week?

      • James67 says:
        16 Mar16 March 08:44

        Except on very popular routes on popular days or times of the year I believe it remains very rare indeed. It has never ever happened to me except in my student travel days in the States on north American airlines when I very happily volunteered. Where possible, I try to fly on Tuesdays or Wednesdays simply because I’ve always believed flights are less likely to be overbooked on these days.

        • Yuff says:
          16 Mar16 March 10:30

          Don’t forget anin’s route is probably the most sought after avios redemption seats out there.
          If BA didn’t have to release 2 in J ~, I’m sure they wouldn’t!!!!!

  • Kevin says:
    16 Mar16 March 08:06

    Coming back from Barbados last summer, I had a paid-for CW ticket and my wife and son had 2-4-1 CW tickets. Couldn’t check in on-line and didn’t get boarding passes until literally boarding the plane. Wife and son still got in to CW and I got upgraded to First! Some you win, some you lose.

  • Tina says:
    16 Mar16 March 08:14

    Rob. I assume when you were downgraded as Silver you had prebooked your seats? If so, it makes the procedure followed by BA a fallacy (you don’t say if you were on paid or reward tickets?)

    • Rob says:
      16 Mar16 March 08:28

      Yes. However, there had been an aircraft swap so that didn’t count for much. I am pretty sure that every other Club passenger was not Gold though 🙂

      Remember that this was the same flght where my 2-year old, Blue card, was offloaded entirely, booked into a five star hotel for the day and put (on his own, as the rest of us were still on the original flight) onto the evening flight …..

      • Anna says:
        16 Mar16 March 13:08

        Just bizarre – their computer system knows when you are trying to book an extra leg room seat for an 11 year old (computer says “NO”), but not that it has bumped off a 2 year old?!!

  • Artimus says:
    16 Mar16 March 08:32

    Not true. I have personally seen non reward customers (two were even Gold status BAEC) who have checked in bags and selected seats being told as they are about to board the flight (when they scan the boarding pass at the gate) that they have been downgraded to economy and they will have to contact BA for refund of price difference (the old boarding pass was torn and new one issued at economy seat). I thought it was checky not just for the last minute nature but also for that the customer is the one who has to seek the refund. Once I asked the gate agent why they only told the customer at the very last minute and she said it’s because they hope people don’t turn up or come late!

  • Richard says:
    16 Mar16 March 08:33

    the post uses the same format (indented and italics) for both the comment from the check in desk contributor and head-for-points. it would be better to differentiate between them better since otherwise you think both sections are comments from the check in desk staff member.

  • William Avery says:
    16 Mar16 March 08:34

    Not sure if anyone has been through J’burg recently but boarding was absolutely chaos for no apparent reason. At the final ticket check they were multiple people aside including me. I thought I was sure to be bumped but got waived through. Looked like others may not have been lucky.

    We paid for seat selection because I wanted to check out the 747 bubble and it was most definitely worth it.

    • Simmo says:
      16 Mar16 March 08:56

      Totally agree! – It’s ‘like’ a private jet!

      Another quirk I like on the 747 is sitting in the nose downstairs where you ‘arrive’ before the pilot!

      • Anon says:
        16 Mar16 March 09:25

        747 – Done both the bubble in PE and multiple nose trips on lower deck in UC on VS. The latter you can play footsie with your significant other… 🙂

  • Anon says:
    16 Mar16 March 08:46

    At some point the new FLY computer system will employ AI to calculate the likelihood of certain pax checking in for a flight and also store whether pax can be bothered filing EU261 claims and have the energy to see them through.

    Maybe after that and other more enhancements, next year BA will finally give it it’s real name…

    S K Y N E T

    🙂

    • Tilly71 says:
      16 Mar16 March 10:00

      Anon – did you check in as soon as physically possible when you were downgraded?
      It will be good to see if any of the BA reps statement holds water in your case.

      • Anon says:
        16 Mar16 March 12:00

        Yes, unable to do OLCI, tried multiple times the day before.

        Arrived at EDI Airport 8+ hours before LGW-MLE.

        Enforced Downgrade at EDI physical checkin.

        • Tilly71 says:
          16 Mar16 March 18:53

          Well in your case what was told by BA doesn’t stack up. It appears you were selected the day before you were to depart and not on the day.
          So, for anyone flying on an avios redemption in premium seats you now have the anxiety of attempting to sign in to print boarding passes and if no access potentially you’ve already been downgraded or getting past that stage when you check your bags in being approached advising you you’ve been downgraded.
          Awful way to be treated as a customer and they wonder why their getting a slating!

          • the real harry1 says:
            16 Mar16 March 19:04

            more strictly speaking: possibly applies to 241 redemptions – no indication yet that (say) RFS redemptions would be targeted for downgrade or getting bumped

            but what if BA had to decide between downgrading a CE redemption passenger vs a cash CE passenger? surely the redemption passenger is normally going to be the cheapest – as all BA would have to do is part-refund Avios & taxes/ fees…

            …the nightmare continues 🙂

          • Anon says:
            16 Mar16 March 19:31

            lol – You’re not possibly suggesting we’ve being misled are you? 😉

            The standard generic template response says something along the lines of the process is purely random and they normally do ask for volunteers.

            So even with no evidence to back these claims up, we are meant to be reassured & suitably soothed? (Hope you’re feeling better)

            I really trust Rob’s inferred analysis on this, IMHO I agree it totally makes economic sense to get away with as much as possible ,

            For example I’m not a bad or nasty person but if I owned an airline and wanted to ruthlessly maximise short term profit heres what Id do.

            1).Allow the whining customers that seek compensation for delays/doiwngrades to drift off to become a problem for competitors
            2) Make as much of a pain as reasonably allowed to pay out for claims, even willing to go to court, make sure word gets out so customers know its a pain to deter them, many weeks wait, etc, etc
            3) Keep up regular sale fares to those loyal fare paying pax who are moistly ignorant of their rights under EU261
            4) Dominate a local market & routes to fend off any other airline
            5) Ruthlessly lower costs to beat off any new competition

            See I’m still a nice person, but I’ve streamlined my business and increased my profit in a very competitive world, can I have my bonus now?

            Lets see how many more on Avios redemptions get “randomly” selected for the rest of the year…

            Would be nice if their was a log on FT, Rob may know more info on stats…??

          • the real harry1 says:
            16 Mar16 March 19:45

            you’ve just made me determine to re-double efforts to get my compo for my missing F&B on tickets bought before the changes were announced

            just going to get Easter & maybe May/June half term flights out of the way first, plenty of time to make the claim

            see? – I’m worried bully BA might destroy my holiday plans in vengeance, I’m Richard Branson junior incarnate

    • Anna says:
      16 Mar16 March 13:13

      Lol, some of the customer service reps certainly seem to have a robotic list of answers like Arnie had in his head in the first film, even if they are slightly more politely delivered!

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